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noname2200 said:
Wonktonodi said:


As I've said I don't want to go into it too much because I know when seeing people talk a lot about previous games I wasn't part of I felt like an outsider and I dislike being the one doing that here.  I've done it more than I like already.  Although I might give you some basics

I've come to look at the game differently.  At first I was thinking every townie is important.  Now (not counting roles that are obviously more important) I see how some are more important than others and some can even be harmful.

I view the lynch differently.  Before I thought of it as a tool to be used only when we have good information.  Now I see it has many more uses. Getting information, taking out the weak, or just putting pressure on someone without them actually being lynched.

I've also thought more about the numbers and see how a no lynch day one can lead to another no lynch needed latter in the game.  So instead of letting the scum get another kill of their choice by having 2 no lynches I figure one an "random" would be better.  Random in quotes because the roles are assigned randomly so unless something really stands out to make us vote for someone specifically.  I figure taking out the weakest player would be just as likely to be scum as anyone and lets us have a stronger town remaining. Even if we don't end up lynching the weakest player at least we've put pressure on them to play better.  With a "random" lynch or a truly random lynch at least scum might get killed while they won't when it is only them who decide so better odds for the town.

"Taking out the weak..."  I'm eager to hear what you mean by this.  Because, if you'll forgive me for saying so, at best it just sounds like you're trying to justify laziness.  "He might maybe possibly be a liability later in the game, and hey, the odds are just as high that he's scum as anyone else, right?"  The entire purpose of the last several hundred posts for both sides is to raise the odds in their favor, not to simply rely on blind luck.  If we were going to go down that path, we wouldn't bother with discussion, but just let random.org play for us.

weak could be defined as players who haven't played well in previous games it could be people who aren't contributing in this one either lurking as posting little or posting nothing of value.  So not truely "random" since it would be based on the actions players have made themselves not random.org. 

I was telling you about general differences is me without really being specific to this game.  Part of why I would like to do that is to get people to activly participate.  It's slightly similar to modkilling inactive players but expanded to bad players as well. 



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Wonktonodi said:

I view the lynch differently.  Before I thought of it as a tool to be used only when we have good information.  Now I see it has many more uses. Getting information, taking out the weak, or just putting pressure on someone without them actually being lynched.

I've also thought more about the numbers and see how a no lynch day one can lead to another no lynch needed latter in the game.  So instead of letting the scum get another kill of their choice by having 2 no lynches I figure one an "random" would be better.  Random in quotes because the roles are assigned randomly so unless something really stands out to make us vote for someone specifically.  I figure taking out the weakest player would be just as likely to be scum as anyone and lets us have a stronger town remaining. Even if we don't end up lynching the weakest player at least we've put pressure on them to play better.  With a "random" lynch or a truly random lynch at least scum might get killed while they won't when it is only them who decide so better odds for the town.

The biggest reason for a lynch is because barring a vigilante, it's the only way town can eliminate mafia. "Taking out the weak" should never be considered as a reason for lynching imo. I do agree that a lynch offers far more information than a no lynch, but the pressure part is more about voting than lynching.

A no lynch today doesn't necessarily mean another no lynch is needed later on. There could be a doctor that makes a save, or a good string of scum lynches prevents endgame from even coming up. Additionally, while no lynch does just give mafia the go ahead for a night kill, I still think it's better than a truly random lynch which would have better odds of being a mislynch than being scum. To explain that, let's assume townie X is going to be the night kill regardless of what happens today as far as lynching.(unless of course townie X is lynched) Since townie X won't be around day two either way, is town really any stronger if we also lynch the weakest player(simply for being weak and not based on suspicions, thus odds are they'd be a townie) instead of going no lynch because nobody stood out yet?



A Bad Clown said:

Regardless, I would have waited until the game has ended to see any difference.

I still am suspicious regarding the lack of suspicion between you two users.

I am still thinking if you two are not mafia, then we could look for answers elsewhere.

Now that tanget is being replaced, I believe this would be the proper time to wait and question user:Nightsurge.

For all we know, tanget could have had the role.

trangent was replaced by theRepublic, wtf is Nightsurge? And what do you mean by "could have had the role?"



Linkzmax said:
A Bad Clown said:

Regardless, I would have waited until the game has ended to see any difference.

I still am suspicious regarding the lack of suspicion between you two users.

I am still thinking if you two are not mafia, then we could look for answers elsewhere.

Now that tanget is being replaced, I believe this would be the proper time to wait and question user:Nightsurge.

For all we know, tanget could have had the role.

trangent was replaced by theRepublic, wtf is Nightsurge? And what do you mean by "could have had the role?"

Accident: Confused by avatar with the former.

Answer: Tanget may have had a mafia role. Republic has inherited his role.



19:44:34 Skeezer METAL GEAR ONLINE
19:44:36 Skeezer FAILURE
19:44:51 ABadClown You're right!
19:44:55 ABadClown Hur hur hur
19:45:01 Skeezer i meant
19:45:04 Skeezer YOU ARE A FAILKURE
19:45:08 Skeezer FAILURE*

Suggestion: Wait for TheRepublic, he may hold the answer we are looking for.



19:44:34 Skeezer METAL GEAR ONLINE
19:44:36 Skeezer FAILURE
19:44:51 ABadClown You're right!
19:44:55 ABadClown Hur hur hur
19:45:01 Skeezer i meant
19:45:04 Skeezer YOU ARE A FAILKURE
19:45:08 Skeezer FAILURE*
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Hephaestos said:

Now, the joke flood did get the game going nicely and we definitely have some interesting discutions.

it seems there are 3 centers of interest:

_ radish does seem to play a bit differently, which is either progression or suspicious...i wouldn't mind input from him on the other 2 situations to gauge that.

_ trangen... did say he'd have plenty of time today and disapeared with his promess of remarks...it's barely 48 hours since the game started, so there wouldn't be much to hold against him had he not said such things. Still, he did and will have to talk soon as he lit the fire under himself....

_as i said, I too am suspisious of abc, but i believe most of the points on him to seem a bit exagerated.... then again in the past 50 posts he made a bunch of  less serious replies that do warrant the previous remarks on him... it feels like i'm reading the thread in dissorder :-/ which either shows insight be his detractors or some scummyness from them combined by odd reactions from him...

oh well... 5 AM, see you in about 15hs :p

I see that you're online now. Anything new to offer about these things, or other things you've noticed?

I remember the last time you were mafia that you had said you wanted to be less active, but then last round I feel like you were right back to your talkative self anyway. This time around I feel like I want to hear from you more.



Linkzmax said:

The biggest reason for a lynch is because barring a vigilante, it's the only way town can eliminate mafia. "Taking out the weak" should never be considered as a reason for lynching imo. I do agree that a lynch offers far more information than a no lynch, but the pressure part is more about voting than lynching.

A no lynch today doesn't necessarily mean another no lynch is needed later on. There could be a doctor that makes a save, or a good string of scum lynches prevents endgame from even coming up. Additionally, while no lynch does just give mafia the go ahead for a night kill, I still think it's better than a truly random lynch which would have better odds of being a mislynch than being scum. To explain that, let's assume townie X is going to be the night kill regardless of what happens today as far as lynching.(unless of course townie X is lynched) Since townie X won't be around day two either way, is town really any stronger if we also lynch the weakest player(simply for being weak and not based on suspicions, thus odds are they'd be a townie) instead of going no lynch because nobody stood out yet?


I it doesn't necessarily mean there would be another no lynch but it makes it much more likely. So although odds are that player X is a townie.  If a no lynch leads to the scum getting an extra kill.  Odds are it won't be player X and it 100% chance that the player is a townie.

If weakest player had a neutral or slightly positive effect on the town.  Meaning the participate, aren't a distraction. use sound reasoning, are clear in there posts. know what's going on and make informed decisions.  Then yes the town wouldn't be better off without them.  However if the weakest player has a negative effect on the town.  I'm all for taking the weakest player out.

However it seems the player that stands out is often the weakest player. 



Linkzmax said:
Hephaestos said:

Now, the joke flood did get the game going nicely and we definitely have some interesting discutions.

it seems there are 3 centers of interest:

_ radish does seem to play a bit differently, which is either progression or suspicious...i wouldn't mind input from him on the other 2 situations to gauge that.

_ trangen... did say he'd have plenty of time today and disapeared with his promess of remarks...it's barely 48 hours since the game started, so there wouldn't be much to hold against him had he not said such things. Still, he did and will have to talk soon as he lit the fire under himself....

_as i said, I too am suspisious of abc, but i believe most of the points on him to seem a bit exagerated.... then again in the past 50 posts he made a bunch of  less serious replies that do warrant the previous remarks on him... it feels like i'm reading the thread in dissorder :-/ which either shows insight be his detractors or some scummyness from them combined by odd reactions from him...

oh well... 5 AM, see you in about 15hs :p

I see that you're online now. Anything new to offer about these things, or other things you've noticed?

I remember the last time you were mafia that you had said you wanted to be less active, but then last round I feel like you were right back to your talkative self anyway. This time around I feel like I want to hear from you more.

Observation: Heph may have just logged in. If Heph posts in other threads while not posting here, I believe that would be a cause of alarm.



19:44:34 Skeezer METAL GEAR ONLINE
19:44:36 Skeezer FAILURE
19:44:51 ABadClown You're right!
19:44:55 ABadClown Hur hur hur
19:45:01 Skeezer i meant
19:45:04 Skeezer YOU ARE A FAILKURE
19:45:08 Skeezer FAILURE*

Oh and one more point yes the presure is more the voting than the lynch or what the vote represents the threat of a lynch.  So yes not the lynch itself but still something more than I noticed in my earlier games.



A Bad Clown said:
noname2200 said:
A Bad Clown said:
noname2200 said:
A Bad Clown said:


I knew we could change votes, I said when we started I thought they were joke posts or placeholders.  BRB from posts

Then why did you say "I assume it was a joke vote because it looks like now we can unvote"?


I knew that when I played we could unvote because we had a small amount of players, but I thought it'd be different here. If we can unvote with 11 players I thought it would be a mess. I looked back at the post after seeing people unvote and decided that we were able to here also.

You're contradicting yourself here, though.  Your initial reaction to my vote was to joke around with me.  It was only hours later that you said that you might have to vote for me, based on my vote.  And again, that marked the second time I'd voted for someone.  Additionally, we'd had others unvote as well.  They were bolded and everything...

After several hours, It appeared to me logically you would keep your vote on me.

At the time, Trashleg also voted and other forum goes would have wanted to join.

It became apparent it was not worth it to vote you, as I was having my own problems.

If you did not take notice, you did not formally  unvote when I was voted.

Your timeline does not add up, though.

1)Prof and stefl both began by voting for Linkzmax.

2) Immediately afterwards, I voted for stefl.

3) Shortly after that, in bold lettering, prof changed his vote to me. 

4) Stefl then changed his vote to prof, also in bold lettering.

 

In other words, on the very first page, it was clear that votes were not permanent.

 

5) I then voted for you.

6) You responded jocularly, over multiple posts.

7) To drive the point in even further, heph unvoted trashleg, in bold letters.

8) I then tried to move the game from horsing around and to a bit more serious play. 

9) In the very next post, you wrote that you might have to vote against me "after the day one accusation."

 

Only two hours elapsed between 5) and 9).

 

10) wonk immediately explained to you how the voting system works, including how we unvote.

11) Your response was not "oh so he was just joking," but rather that you would wait for prof to see if he was "bad news."

12) In response to prof, you made your "now I see" post.

13) Roughly twelve hours later, Final-Fan voted for you.

14) Two hours after that, trashleg finally voted for you.

15) Other site brought up, attention focuses more on you than anyone else.

17) Roughly twelve hours later, and several ABC posts after trash's vote, prof finally explains that his vote on me is akin to not having any vote.

16) A day after she voted for ABC, trashleg brings up how ABC never questioned her about her vote. 

18) ABC responds by saying that "we were still starting out" and because prof's post about undecided votes made him assume trash's was too, notwithstanding the fact that trash's vote came with a long explanation of her reasoning,. She even followed it up with another post about her increasing suspicions of him.

 

 

To review.  Your explanation for why you never pressed trashleg on her vote is not possible.  You had several hours to ask her about it, but you never did.  When she asked you why you never did, you pointed to something prof told you the next day.  Short of being able to see the future, there is no way that prof's post could have caused you to keep silent.  Additionally, you're trying to equate prof's "lol 2200 aliens!" post with the long, detailed explanation trashleg gave for her vote, a vote which she later emphasized.  This reeks of desperately trying to avoid the topic.  Why would you do that?

Another lie: you claim that the reason you never voted for me was that by the time several hours had passed since my vote you were under pressure from trashleg and others.  However, the above timeline shows that you had more than twleve hours between you mulling a vote on me and people finally focusing on you.  In other words, your using events that had not yet happened to justify what you had done earlier.  And it still does not make any sense how your initial response to my vote was to joke, and then (a mere two hours later) to take it seriously, and as a sign that we can not unvote in this game, notwithstanding the fact that several people had already done so...

 

In short, you're lying about why you are and are not doing things.  I still haven't completely made up my mind about your alignment, but I do know that I'm quite uncomfortable with you, since you're unable to keep your story straight without resorting to time travel.  I will leave my vote on you.