The reason no1 is asking those questions because we know the as powerful as ps3 thing isn't true, at best it looks about the same according to someone opinion but imperially speaking it's not even close, I'm hoping they were smart enough to make it cheap this time though it better be 300 or less at launch

I'd just like to say that I don't expect Sony to keep half their promises with this console.

Welcome to VGChartz. Two pretty interesting tech posts there.

Stick around :P

@ Scoobes

Thanks i appreciate, I've been lurking for a while already on the site as well as other tech related sites, (neogaf gives me headaches seriously how many comments are you going to cram in a single page before the next!). Never really took the plunge to register and comment until today when i saw two misconceptions that really bugged the hell out of me and just couldn't spend another minute without shedding some light on the Matter

if you look at  my first post, towards the assumption  was that that Game Cards would be too expensive and only Come in 2GB/4GB (3DS like) which couldn't be further from the true as it stands 4GB/8GB would be the norm and the esporadic 16GB game (Kojima project anybody?) though for the most part 4GB/8GB.   and as Flash becomes cheaper, the console matures and devs get a better grip of it richer better games would come out that could end up taking up to 32GB late on the console life and 16GB could very well become the standard like others mentioned.

The other Point was that It uses the same chips from the iphone  which again couldn't be further from the true and the fact that the NGP is huge magnitude more capable graphically which brings me to final point while i agree 3DS and NGP difference wont be as drastic as paper graphics (DS) vs 3D environments (PSP) there is still a huge difference on the hardware which power both consoles 3DS GPU is on par with the SGX535 (which would put it more inline the Xbox (being generous) winch as i covered before the NGP  GPU can be up to (if not more ) 32x more powerful which should make possible near PS360 experience on a 5" Screen

These are merely technical observations i am making, to clear some misconceptions/myths thats have been making the rounds on the web recently. In no way i insinuate one console is better bla bla bla, it comes to personal preference in my case NGP is in my top wanted list

actually imagination technologies  only claim a 40% increase in performance per core in shader heavy applications, and as those claims come from the manufacturer I wouldn't be surprised to see less than that in most cases. Thats not to mention how well the architecture actually scales with multiple cores, I have seen the manufacturer claim almost 1-1 but the NGP is the only device announced to use a quad core so far. How much and how fast the RAM the NGP has is the biggest ? over the NGPs performance ATM.

I have seen no evidence to suggest that the NGP has anything more than a 200mhz GPU TBH though it's possible they will go with a 400mhz chip I think that battery life and heat concerns make that unlikely.

You are correct about the APIs though. 

The real issue though is that the NGP at it's current size puts it more in competition with the iPad than the iPhone IMO...

Is not as straight forward as that that just to cite a few:  Not only it has several shader performance improvements but it also has doubled the number of Shader pipelines of each core, vastly upgraded vertex performance, upgraded tile handling, increased floating point perf, MSAA,  increase performance of the pipeline,HUGE upgrade with USSE2 etc .  There's info about it on a Imagination tech PDFs all those architectural upgrades give it a 4x/5x boost over the former SGX535 in overall performance, It has several performance upgrades. Also the 40% performance efficiency of shaders doesn't specify over SGX535, they usually use Performance upgrades over the previous chip not that it matter anyways, im just pointing it out

So the actual a SGX543MP4 used on the NGP would be anywhere from 16x to 32x  more powerful than a SGX535 Chip clocked  at 200Mhz depending of the ending clock speed on the NGP SGX543MP4. I would say the performance gap would be much greater between the actual iPhone because Not only apple doesn't use low level apis, but its also has Terrible Open Gl drivers, and the fact that Its hardware wont ever take full potential of the SGX535. Unlike the NGP which is designed to take the most out of every mm of gaming silicone

High efficiency Linear scalability of over 95%  is kinda like their whole selling point, its architecture is designed around scalability efficiency. is not like desktop GPUs which have a long ways to go still in GPU scaling efficiency . If it didnt offer linera scalabilty Sony wouldt have used it for its hadheld with which is space constrained tehy migh as well go for a Beefier single core GPU

About the RAM: The most imoprtan factor is for it to be speedy ram you just look at consoles with 512MB of ram (well 256MB for the PS3) blow smartphones out of the water. I really dont see it as a deciding perfomance factor, it is pretty much given it would be at least 512MB and speedy, eddr2 or greater, which Tegra 2 already uses. It could be anywhere from 512MB to 1GB hopefully. even at 256MB it would be better than the cheap slow ram smartphones use

"I have seen no evidence to suggest that the NGP has anything more than a 200mhz GPU"

That funny, you are not supposed to anyways :p most of the details regarding the specs are secret and unknown. that and the fact that it still is in prototype phase which is why they could give battery or price estimated yet

The NGP is launching by late 2011 early 2012 Sony would have no problem to have this built on a 28nm process which would make 400Mhz core clock for the GPU more than plausible, you see, the advantage of Sony using licensed iP from imagination technologies and ARM is that they can produce the parts on small manufacturing process as it becomes available to reduce costs and increase power efficiency.

SGX chips dont really consume that much power, at 400Mhz for the SGX543MP4 is entirely possible on a 28nm process for example, and the timing for it is perfect, i really think this is the most likely solution after seeing the results shown which are outstanding on the resolution the NGP is rendering, and most of those demos were just 1/2 weeks worth of work with no real optimization

The timing makes sense with 28nm process technology which would be ready by mid 2011 and appear in products by late 2011, early 2012. Also Keep in mind this handheld console is in for the long run, it hardware would  have a life cycle of around 5 to 6 years so it makes sense for sony to go all out with the tech they have.

Not to mention at 28nm the actual SoC would not occupy that much silicon space, and the (AM)OLED screen has very low power consumption and its really thin, which would leave PLENTY of space for a very juicy battery which is at least on Par with the 3DS which is honestly lackluster. (I just realized i used which on this paragraph quite a lot xD)

Also remember rumors pointed out to Sony bringing  back the brick form factor because of overheating issues with the slide out design (ala go) which give more credibility to the fact that they are going all out on GPU performance which is crucial for Graphics.

Im cannot predict the future nothing is 100% certain, im giving my opinions i expect the SGX543MP4 Core speed to be anywhere from 300Mhz to 400Mhz

About Size: The NGP isn't really that much bigger than the PSP 3000, while it may not be pocket-able friendly i fail to see it as a tablet, hecks i have trouble fitting my ultra thing ipod touch on my jeans pockets (and im not fat). and the 3DS when opened/expanded is very close to the size of the NGP.

About dedicated gaming devices vs iOS comparisons:

I have an iPod Touch 2G and have Tons of Apps (i mean it) something like 200 apps. And to tell you the truth they are just casual shovel ware packed fun, with a few RPGs exceptions like inotia and the like, they are cool and all but they are not gaming devices replacements

they are different devices that cater different markets and experiences, i  enjoy using my ipod touch for music, web browsing, and utility apps which are great and have plenty of games as well but they are just instant games to kill a few minutes whenever i want to get some real gaming done on the move i take either my DS or PSP with me


Most of the iOS games i played i never bothered to finish, they have that novelty factor that attracts you for a while, once its over it just gets bland and boring, and in my opinion dont see whats the big deal with Angry Birds, in my opinion it was the shittiest game i ever played, i hit level 3 and quit the game to me it was just meh... the only reason it sold so much is because it was on the top 25 and if you pay attention to top 25 games on the appstore most of them always stay there its a vicious circle of ignorant downloads

Don't get me wrong i Love my iPod Touch (i hate it when people call it iTouch) apps are great and games are good for some quick gameplay but its just shovel-ware. It will NEVER EVER replace dedicated gaming handhelds like DS or PSP. Even though the DS has worse paper graphics than the iPhone, DS games are much much better, much higher quality, heck i would play a Gameboy Advance games for hours, which cannot be said of iOS games which novelty just lasts a few hours/days and then its just like any other iOS game

Different devices,  cant compare Apples to watermelons iPhone/ipods are all in one ultra portable multipurpose media devices, just like 3DS/NGP are gaming devices first and media second as an added as a basically functionality required

I seriously dont understand people that try to compare iOS devices with 3DS and NGP, claiming all d00m and gl00m on dedicated gaming devices because short shovel ware is the future. Hell no its a different market for different people, i personally loved mobile gaming ever since the original Game Boy. iOS is not a proper gaming device in my book. Thats why i love the NGP so much is has everything i wanted and more on a dedicate handheld to play my full fledged games

Its stupid that people (not you btw) cant grasp the simple idea that there have always been different markets and just because one market is bigger than the other doesn't mean the others one should change or stop existing all together. Would you like to be in a world with no Nintendo and Sony handhelds and only Casual phone shovel-ware?

And sorry for the massive post i figured what the hecks i might as well share my views on the matter since its been bugging me for quite sometime, comparisons of phones with gaming devices and claiming that dedicated gaming devices are d00med

This is easy.

1) New tech, not quite PS3 power, way smaller screen than typical 1080p tv, OLED, bizz-buzz words.

2) Compatibility. Oh hahaha, you meant as a joke. ... 

3) In some cases yes some games will be multiple GB per game. If you _only_ buy from online, then yes you will be shelling out a bit extra dough to buy those 32GB flash cards to store a dozen games give or take. Could be upwards in the 20s depending on the game. Remember, this is for smaller screen, which mean graphics can be significantly scaled down compared to the standards of PS3 games. Sound as well can be compressed compared to the normal uncompressed sound found in some PS3 games. Which means many NPG games might end up using half or even less the space as their PS3 counterparts.

4) You _might_ see games costing $49, you might also see games staying the same $39. Either way, meh.

5) So? Seems like awesome sauce to me.

6) Ask Nintendo, they have like 3 cameras. One could hazard to guess though it might be for games that want to capture the gamers face. Or games that want to overlay stuff on top of surfaces the backface camera sees. Use your imagination. And correct, they aren't for photography, they are for gaming.

7) $300 to $350 or £249 to £300

8) It taught them that they can do better than _any_ other competitor to Nintendo has ever done before. If you want to talk about innovation, doing new things, the NGP has it. They are going a different route than 3DS. Yes, instead of completely copying Nintendo they are going down a slightly different path. No dual screens. No 3D. Instead they are experimenting that they might be able to maintain or even gain on the ~30% market share they've gotten this gen. Which is, again, a major success.

9) NGP will most likely not run android games. Rather they will run Playstation Suite games, which can also be run on android devices. The NGP is _not_ using android. It's already been debunked. PS1 games did not have analog sticks. PS2 game emulation would be the one with two analog sticks, which probably will not be able to run on android phones without the use of on screen controls. The NGP on the other hand will probably see PS2 games released on PSN.

10) NGP is a code name. Try harder.

Light pink text on a white background = I don't read.

Ok, read it from the source:

3. Size questions

Games on the PS3 come in at 7 or more gigs largely because of textures.  When you're playing on a screen that's only a few inches, you don't need 4096x4096, 2048x2048, or barely even 1024x1024 textures.  That saves an insane amount of space.

4. Price of card questions

Could be the same as in Steam, but I doubt it.  In order not to piss off Gamestop they will likely be the same price and customers will eat the cost on doanloadable games.  It sucks, blah blah blah, get over it.

5. Using all inputs

As long as it controls well, what is the problem?  If a game only uses the touch screen but does it poorly, does that make it better than a game that uses all inputs well?

6. Two cameras

Agreed, two is silly on the device.  Two cameras in general is silly.

7. Price concerns

I thought this was 10 questions nobody was asking?  Everyone is asking how much it's going to cost and nobody believes it will be less than the 3DS.  Hell, most people put it at a minimum of $300.

8. No Mobile Simple Gamers?

What?  This is a problem with the developers, not-so-much the NGP.  I agree that it's built too much for the hardcore and it doesn't need to be as powerful as the PS3, but it can run casual games just as well as the DS.

9. Android stuff

Give it time?  I'm sure they will let us know before it releases.

Overall, pretty worthless articlle and doesn't deserve any more attention than the general forum post.  Somebody is just trolling for hits.