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Forums - Sony - "NGP: the 10 questions nobody’s asking" from some blog

some interesting points mixed with some obviously flame bait ones lol, still it's interesting

"

Because videogames journalism is embarrassingly bad.

 

1. Two quad-core processors boasting PS3-esque power in something the size of a PSP? Given that a PS3 is about 30 times the size of a PSP and still needs a fan you could get a medium-sized helicopter off the ground with (and which makes about the same amount of noise), how on Earth are they going to manage that without the thing melting in your hands after three minutes?

2. Come to that, if this thing's got as much power as the PS3, how come they haven't just shoved the same tech into an actual PS3(*) so that it won't deafen your pets any more?

3. We're told that the games will be sold online in the PS Store and in shops on special memory cards. But hang on. Once again, if we're talking games that are of PS3 standard in terms of visual quality and gameplay depth, we're going to be talking about several GB a pop.

The biggest SD card you can currently buy (outside of ultra-specialist, ultra-expensive suppliers) costs around £40 for 32GB, and that's still only probably going to be enough for what, eight or nine games? Buy any more and you're going to have to delete your existing ones, then re-download them (at several GB a time) if you want to play them again. Who wants that?

(Those are SD-card memory prices, of course. Sony have said that the memory-card format will be a brand-new proprietary one, and even now a 32GB Sony Memory Stick – a medium well over a decade old – comes in at more like £90 from the cheapest online stores.)

4. Shop-bought games will probably come on their own dedicated memory card. (So nice and small and easy to lose. Bonus for Sony!) But even 4GB SD cards are £6-7, which is a huge jump in cost of media compared to putting games on DVDs or Blu-Ray discs, and with a proprietary format it seems reasonable to bump that up considerably.

Now, obviously Sony won't be paying retail prices for cards, but the cost of manufacture for that much storage in a new format is still going to be very hefty. So given that the focus has so far been entirely on big console-type games with massive development budgets, how much is software going to cost if there's likely the best part of a tenner going just on the blank media? (And Sony are involved.) My blood runs cold just thinking about it.

5. Front touchscreen, rear touchpad, two analogue sticks, d-pad, eight gaming buttons – you KNOW some awful twatsack is already developing a game that uses ALL of those, don't you?

6. What's the point of having two cameras on a device with no phone functionality? (Okay, with 3G support it COULD use Skype and similar, but can you really picture yourself talking into something the size of a PSP? Remember how people mocked the much smaller N-Gage?)

And what sort of cameras are we talking here? Proper iPhone-style ones, or Fisher-Price DS ones? The absence of a flash seems to rule out any possibility of using them for any worthwhile sort of photography, and that's quite a bunch of extra cost and form-factor space to add to a device just so you can have your stupid grinning face on an avatar.

7. Hilariously, GI.biz have apparently already claimed that "the word on the street" is of a price in the range of £180-220. The 3DS costs more than that, and compared to the tech inside the NGP it's running on a wood-fired stove. Sony themselves were still trying to get £249 for the PSPGo last year, and have an unbroken 21st-century track record of gouging consumers on hardware price.

The company has claimed the unit will be "affordable", a term so subjective as to be meaningless, and has also said it wants to make a profit on hardware as well as software. (Uh-oh.) Their most telling comment so far, though, is that the price will be "appropriate for the handheld gaming space".

Let's remember – the "handheld gaming space" now includes the iPhone and the iPad, which fly off shelves at £500-600. And every other device you can buy in Currys today with a touchscreen the size of the NGP's calls itself a "tablet" and sits in broadly the same price bracket as the iPad. Hmm.

So since we're framing these things as questions, let's make it one:You don't REALLY think there's even the slimmest chance in the world of this thing coming out below £300, do you? (WoSblog's guessing £349 at a minimum, with standard games at £40 or even more.)

8. The NGP is the PSP only more so. Offhand I can't think of a single fundamental change between the new device and its predecessors, just a load of extras nailed on. It's bigger, more powerful, and still dedicated primarily to running home-console blockbuster-type games rather than ones designed for the mobile audience. Didn't the relative success of the DS against the PSP (against all predictions) teach Sony anything?

9. Does ANYONE know what's actually going on with the Android link-up? Will the NGP run Android games? Will Android machines run proprietary Android-based NGP games? (And if it's just PS1 games, how are Android devices like smartphones going to cope with emulating a machine with two analogue sticks, a d-pad and eight buttons?)

Is it both? Neither? Something different altogether? Nobody seems very clear. Are Sony going to let the Android Market, with its unfiltered bucketloads of free and super-cheap games, exist alongside the PS Store? Etc etc.

10. And don't Sony know that NGP stands for Neo Geo Pocket? Man, imagine the potential for hilarious misunderstandings and eBay scams.

Even notwithstanding that last one, this could get really messy.

 

 

 

(*) EDIT: Since the influx of educationally-subnormal children to this blog (thanks, N4G!), it seems I need to spell out that point 2 was intended as a facetious joke. Clearly you can't just put the NGP chipset into the PS3. The main reason for this is that it's absolutely plainly NOT as powerful as a PS3, despite what total idiots have been saying for the last few days.

I mean, seriously, that Uncharted demo footage people are wetting their trousers over? Really? It looks like a particularly boring jungle section from a mediocre PS2 Tomb Raider. Tsk.

"

http://wosblog.podgamer.com/2011/01/27/ngp-the-questions-nobodys-asking/



@TheVoxelman on twitter

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Some of them are just dumb, others are sort of valid.

The worst ones;

1: I'm not sure if the author knows this, but technology moves forward, compare the components in a laptop today with a laptop from seven to eight years back (which is when the PS3 dev kits were complete) and spot the difference...

2: Refer to point 1, technology moves forward, they can't very well use technology that doesn't exist yet and they can't rebuild the entire architecture of the console itself midway in it's lifeycle. Glaringly obvious.

3: Again, techology, compression. What took up 25GB of space many year ago now takes considerably less and the storage devices themselves increase in size and lower in price, doubly so if a console uses the format. Blu-ray was costly to make and distribute at the start of the 7th gen, it isn't any longer. Compare the prices of USB drives of today with the USB drives a few years back.

6: Is there phone functionality on an iMac or other laptops? Didn't think so, best to remove the cameras then. And here I was thinking cameras were more natural in multimedia devices than in phones...

7: Two things; this is pure speculation and, most importantly, this is certainly not a "question nobody is asking", in fact; this is probably the most discussed point of the entire reveal and launch.

Bottom line; this is mostly nonsense. Could be meant as satire though, it seem more like an attempt to rile up fanboys tbh.



Mummelmann said:

Some of them are just dumb, others are sort of valid.

The worst ones;

1: I'm not sure if the author knows this, but technology moves forward, compare the components in a laptop today with a laptop from seven to eight years back (which is when the PS3 dev kits were complete) and spot the difference...

2: Refer to point 1, technology moves forward, they can't very well use technology that doesn't exist yet and they can't rebuild the entire architecture of the console itself midway in it's lifeycle. Glaringly obvious.

3: Again, techology, compression. What took up 25GB of space many year ago now takes considerably less and the storage devices themselves increase in size and lower in price, doubly so if a console uses the format. Blu-ray was costly to make and distribute at the start of the 7th gen, it isn't any longer. Compare the prices of USB drives of today with the USB drives a few years back.

6: Is there phone functionality on an iMac or other laptops? Didn't think so, best to remove the cameras then. And here I was thinking cameras were more natural in multimedia devices than in phones...

7: Two things; this is pure speculation and, most importantly, this is certainly not a "question nobody is asking", in fact; this is probably the most discussed point of the entire reveal and launch.

Bottom line; this is mostly nonsense. Could be meant as satire though, it seem more like an attempt to rile up fanboys tbh.

yea but there are a few mostly good points presented in a flamy way, I mean if any thought the article was meant to be serious they obviously didn't read the first line lol



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

zarx said:
Mummelmann said:

Some of them are just dumb, others are sort of valid.

The worst ones;

1: I'm not sure if the author knows this, but technology moves forward, compare the components in a laptop today with a laptop from seven to eight years back (which is when the PS3 dev kits were complete) and spot the difference...

2: Refer to point 1, technology moves forward, they can't very well use technology that doesn't exist yet and they can't rebuild the entire architecture of the console itself midway in it's lifeycle. Glaringly obvious.

3: Again, techology, compression. What took up 25GB of space many year ago now takes considerably less and the storage devices themselves increase in size and lower in price, doubly so if a console uses the format. Blu-ray was costly to make and distribute at the start of the 7th gen, it isn't any longer. Compare the prices of USB drives of today with the USB drives a few years back.

6: Is there phone functionality on an iMac or other laptops? Didn't think so, best to remove the cameras then. And here I was thinking cameras were more natural in multimedia devices than in phones...

7: Two things; this is pure speculation and, most importantly, this is certainly not a "question nobody is asking", in fact; this is probably the most discussed point of the entire reveal and launch.

Bottom line; this is mostly nonsense. Could be meant as satire though, it seem more like an attempt to rile up fanboys tbh.

yea but there are a few mostly good points presented in a flamy way, I mean if any thought the article was meant to be serious they obviously didn't read the first line lol

Do you think RolStoppable wrote it?



Just on #3 ...

Based on what I know about cartridge sizes on the DS, I would expect most early NGP games to be on 1GB or 2GB flash cards; and until late in the generation, few games will be released on 8GB or 16GB discs. This shouldn't be too much of a problem because most HD console games are delivered on the XBox 360's DVD based disc, and I suspect there will be few NGP games which are as ambitious as most HD games; primarily because I doubt developers will be willing to devote the budget to develop HD console games on a portable system.



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HappySqurriel said:

Just on #3 ...

Based on what I know about cartridge sizes on the DS, I would expect most early NGP games to be on 1GB or 2GB flash cards; and until late in the generation, few games will be released on 8GB or 16GB discs. This shouldn't be too much of a problem because most HD console games are delivered on the XBox 360's DVD based disc, and I suspect there will be few NGP games which are as ambitious as most HD games; primarily because I doubt developers will be willing to devote the budget to develop HD console games on a portable system.


considering PSP games are already up to 1.8 GB and the level of visuals the NGP can deliver 2-4 GB to start quickly uping to 8GB as games have more development time etc and by the end of it's life 16GB will be common with the odd 32GB monster from someone like Kojima or a final fantasy game with hours of pre rendered video lol



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

zarx said:
HappySqurriel said:

Just on #3 ...

Based on what I know about cartridge sizes on the DS, I would expect most early NGP games to be on 1GB or 2GB flash cards; and until late in the generation, few games will be released on 8GB or 16GB discs. This shouldn't be too much of a problem because most HD console games are delivered on the XBox 360's DVD based disc, and I suspect there will be few NGP games which are as ambitious as most HD games; primarily because I doubt developers will be willing to devote the budget to develop HD console games on a portable system.


considering PSP games are already up to 1.8 GB and the level of visuals the NGP can deliver 2-4 GB to start quickly uping to 8GB as games have more development time etc and by the end of it's life 16GB will be common with the odd 32GB monster from someone like Kojima or a final fantasy game with hours of pre rendered video lol

My thought is just how these cartridges will impact game costs ... At 1GB to 2GB today, you could probably deliver a game at a very similar price to selling it on an optical disc; as the size of the disc increases the costs rapidly increase, and you would (probably) need to charge $10 to $15 more for an 8GB game, or $30 more for a 16GB game.





Thing is you don't have even tear drop of technology awarness

1.First of all PS3 done have 2x Quad-core CPU, it got single Cell processor that is single-core CPU supported with eight SPEs cores, that untypical architecture is reason of PS3 being told that it's hard to program, since it's need heavy multi-threading to be bale to use it's full potencial. But putting that aside, portable CPUs are made to be power economic and less heat as possible, also they got slower clocks. How PS3 get ported in inferior hardware, i got theory how they do that that anwsers also quastion number...

2. Game developer not programing CPUs or any hardware direcly, things liek that exits in 8-bit and 16-bit are when CPU machine code in form of assebler languge was in range of human understanding. After that higher languge taken over, like C/C , to control hardware APIs was made by the hardware developers. APIs is set of easier functions ,something like simple function activating other code this is more complex, that for example can control hardware.  API can be replaced to be use in other hardware, but higher code that using that API don't need to change at all since name of functions not changeing. What im saing here (and thats my theory) what Sony did is to make NGP SDK APIs very similar to PS3 APIs, allowing to speed up the porting process. But here one thing, what you see on videos is not so butiful as it is in PS3 in detail, it surly infarior graphics that you need to watch it closly to see the diffrence, most visble on demos was lower resolution shodows (causing chopy shape of them). Even if this look like PS3 power, it isn't, graphics are lowered down to power of NGP.

3. Flash memory is have ability to write and read..... yes write and we don't need that to game medium. Insted of useing Flash Sony can use some kind of ROM that is programable only once and is cheaper in production then flash memory, same tech that Nintendo using

4. anwser on quastion 3 solves that

5. You bet, that what developers liek the most... not kidding.

6. Execpt communication (that you anwsered yourself), cameras allows for Extender Reality games, on front camera it can involve  face to that. But for develop it's not mater it's just input device that can be used in some way, for example for quick pic of you face that can be used in game.

7. I don't know :p keep in mind PS3 still have similar sales to cheaper 360

8. PSP is most succesful non-Nintendo portable console ever made, lot of portable manufactures would sell there soul to be in Sony's position right now and, throwing this out would throwing golden fish without saying the wishes. Look other portable console trys and compire this to PSP. Also look on stationery consoles, PlayStation kicked Nintendo back-parts sky high, did Nintendo resignate no. Xbox was also not much of sucess, did they resignate? No. You won't build postion without trying.

9. Yes and no. If NGP will run android, it will run Android apllication that is writen in Java, Games on other hand are made in compiled in native hardware code and won't be able to run it on other hardware then NGP.

10. That quastion is nothing more they joke :p



HappySqurriel said:
zarx said:
HappySqurriel said:

Just on #3 ...

Based on what I know about cartridge sizes on the DS, I would expect most early NGP games to be on 1GB or 2GB flash cards; and until late in the generation, few games will be released on 8GB or 16GB discs. This shouldn't be too much of a problem because most HD console games are delivered on the XBox 360's DVD based disc, and I suspect there will be few NGP games which are as ambitious as most HD games; primarily because I doubt developers will be willing to devote the budget to develop HD console games on a portable system.


considering PSP games are already up to 1.8 GB and the level of visuals the NGP can deliver 2-4 GB to start quickly uping to 8GB as games have more development time etc and by the end of it's life 16GB will be common with the odd 32GB monster from someone like Kojima or a final fantasy game with hours of pre rendered video lol

My thought is just how these cartridges will impact game costs ... At 1GB to 2GB today, you could probably deliver a game at a very similar price to selling it on an optical disc; as the size of the disc increases the costs rapidly increase, and you would (probably) need to charge $10 to $15 more for an 8GB game, or $30 more for a 16GB game.

is there any doubt that NGP games will retail for $50-60? The price of flash memory is still dropping and I just don't see retail games with 4-5 times the level of assets (textures, geometry, video etc) being smaller than PSP games bing smaller than 2GB unless they are really lacking in content, not to mention anything under a GB will be download only IMO. And your prices aren't really accurate if SONY are manufacturing their own carts (they probably will) with 16GB SD carts retailing at $50 the actual cost if you aren't paying SD card royalties and manufacturing in high quantities will probably be well under $20 for publishers (still high but dropping quite rapidly) and I don't see games that big for a couple years at least. There are some developments in flash memory on the horizon promise vastly cheaper flash memory in the coming years and massive increases in capacity. 

http://www.fastcompany.com/1610755/hp-memristors-semiconductors-chips-memory-science-flash-ram-physics-electronics

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9183066/Nanocrystal_conductors_using_dirt_cheap_material_promise_massive_3_D_storage

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/08/flash-error-correction-chip/



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