By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Separation of Church and State? Screw That... Proselytism FTW!

Mr Khan on 19 January 2011
superchunk said:

Regardless of his personal religious views, a person holding a public office in the US cannot promote that faith with his office. That is where this gov is coming too close for comfort.

As a Muslim I wouldn't even want to see a Muslim politician stating something like that. Its just against the foundation of this nation as our forefathers (who were not predominately christian) wanted that separation in the first place to prevent religion from creating separation in the union as it has done to every other part of the world.

Freedom of religion and the complete separation of church and state is vital for any long term success of a multi-cultural nation which the US is more so than anyone else.

They were, to a point. Those who weren't out-and-out Christian were deists, which believed in the morals of Christianity without all the spiritual baggage that tends to get in the way of the morals. Hell, Jefferson spent many hours in the Presidential Palace (pre White House, recall) tearing out all of the mysticism and leaving in the philosophy in the Bible

I don't think he was trying to be discriminatory (or at least i hope not) but at least he should have the presence of mind to choose his words more carefully



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Around the Network
Kasz216 on 19 January 2011

I... generally don't see the problem.

I don't think it'll help him be reelected, but he's not actually doing anything.

Now if he ends up being biased against non christians this is a good proof.  Or really a good way even if he's fair for people to harass the state for money....

but this has zero to do with seperation of Church and State.



superchunk on 19 January 2011
Kasz216 said:

I... generally don't see the problem.

I don't think it'll help him be reelected, but he's not actually doing anything.

Now if he ends up being biased against non christians this is a good proof.  Or really a good way even if he's fair for people to harass the state for money....

but this has zero to do with seperation of Church and State.


He's a public servant. Giving a speech to a crowd. That speech was dangerously demostrating that he is biased towards those of his own faith. I say that is within the realm of separation of church and state. Not horribly, but enough to make him take a step back and think better before he speaks next time.



sapphi_snake on 19 January 2011
Kasz216 said:

I... generally don't see the problem.

I don't think it'll help him be reelected, but he's not actually doing anything.

Now if he ends up being biased against non christians this is a good proof.  Or really a good way even if he's fair for people to harass the state for money....

but this has zero to do with seperation of Church and State.

You mean there's nothing wrong with an elected official proselytising?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

highwaystar101 on 19 January 2011

I'm going to echo Kasz and say I don't see the problem.



Around the Network
Kasz216 on 19 January 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

I... generally don't see the problem.

I don't think it'll help him be reelected, but he's not actually doing anything.

Now if he ends up being biased against non christians this is a good proof.  Or really a good way even if he's fair for people to harass the state for money....

but this has zero to do with seperation of Church and State.

You mean there's nothing wrong with an elected official proselytising?

Why would there be?

Just so long as he doesn't create any legislature or use his powers to bribe people in the process of doing so.

It's no different then an elected official trying to convince you to go to his favorite steak joint.  It's his opinion and he has every right to it.



sapphi_snake on 20 January 2011
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

I... generally don't see the problem.

I don't think it'll help him be reelected, but he's not actually doing anything.

Now if he ends up being biased against non christians this is a good proof.  Or really a good way even if he's fair for people to harass the state for money....

but this has zero to do with seperation of Church and State.

You mean there's nothing wrong with an elected official proselytising?

Why would there be?

Just so long as he doesn't create any legislature or use his powers to bribe people in the process of doing so.

It's no different then an elected official trying to convince you to go to his favorite steak joint.  It's his opinion and he has every right to it.

It's not the place of an elected official to proselytise. This isn't an issue of having an opinion, but one of forcing your opinion on others. His words are very telling of what he'll do in the future,



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

HappySqurriel on 20 January 2011

If there was concrete evidence that suggested that he was going to use his position of power to provide benefits to his religion I could see some reason for concern; but I don’t really see any indication of that in what he is saying.

People can allow themselves to be defined by one of a variety of things, and they can even be defined by multiple things at the same time; and someone claiming that they couldn’t be "brothers" with someone who didn’t share a trait that they believed defined them should not be controversial.



thranx on 20 January 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

I... generally don't see the problem.

I don't think it'll help him be reelected, but he's not actually doing anything.

Now if he ends up being biased against non christians this is a good proof.  Or really a good way even if he's fair for people to harass the state for money....

but this has zero to do with seperation of Church and State.

You mean there's nothing wrong with an elected official proselytising?

Why would there be?

Just so long as he doesn't create any legislature or use his powers to bribe people in the process of doing so.

It's no different then an elected official trying to convince you to go to his favorite steak joint.  It's his opinion and he has every right to it.

It's not the place of an elected official to proselytise. This isn't an issue of having an opinion, but one of forcing your opinion on others. His words are very telling of what he'll do in the future,


How is he forcing his views on others? What is he making those who don't believe do that is so wrong? What laws is he trying to change to benifit christians and hurt none christians? Care to share your time machine? I prefer to let  people make their errors before I call them out on it.



sapphi_snake on 20 January 2011
thranx said:
sapphi_snake said:

It's not the place of an elected official to proselytise. This isn't an issue of having an opinion, but one of forcing your opinion on others. His words are very telling of what he'll do in the future,


How is he forcing his views on others? What is he making those who don't believe do that is so wrong? What laws is he trying to change to benifit christians and hurt none christians? Care to share your time machine? I prefer to let  people make their errors before I call them out on it.

Fine. If I'll hear him make biased decisions I'll post a thread titled "I told you so".



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)