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Forums - Sales - Core or Casual: Which of the two markets are more important/desirable?

 

Core or Casual: Which of the two markets are more important/desirable?

The Core gamer market 50 25.77%
 
The Casual gamer market 35 18.04%
 
A healthy combination of both 77 39.69%
 
It varies from the big three 11 5.67%
 
Dunno 0 0%
 
Click me for results! 21 10.82%
 
Total:194
Aielyn said:

"Core" refers to the people who make the majority of purchases on your console. It is a term referring to business, to the market. The "Core Market" is, essentially, the portion of the market that the company's products are primarily aimed at.

This. HD consoles and Wii have different core customers.



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Antabus said:
Aielyn said:

"Core" refers to the people who make the majority of purchases on your console. It is a term referring to business, to the market. The "Core Market" is, essentially, the portion of the market that the company's products are primarily aimed at.

This. HD consoles and Wii have different core customers.

I suspect that you've misunderstood.

There is no category of gamers that are inherently part of, or not part of, the "core" for any console. While a larger part of the core for the PS3 and 360 will be FPS fans, the core spreads over all genres, all styles of play, etc. Indeed, the core for a console typically do not restrict themselves to a single genre or group of genres, and instead will buy a broad variety of games.

For instance, I'm probably part of the core on the Wii. I own a diverse collection including Call of Duty: World at War, No More Heroes, Epic Mickey, Dewy's Adventure, and Wii Music, just to name a few. I bought the system at launch. My collection, if I weren't financially limited right now (basically, for the last year, I haven't bought myself a game, the few games I've gotten have been gifts) and lacking in free time, would probably be well over 50 games by now. One cannot target the core of the console, except by making quality games.

Meanwhile, the "Core Market" varies from developer to developer, based on the people who are most likely to buy a game from that developer. It generally cannot be neatly pigeonholed, though, unless the developer has positioned themselves firmly within a niche - in which case, they're (the developer, not the core market) going to die a slow, painful death.



Aielyn said:
Antabus said:
Aielyn said:

"Core" refers to the people who make the majority of purchases on your console. It is a term referring to business, to the market. The "Core Market" is, essentially, the portion of the market that the company's products are primarily aimed at.

This. HD consoles and Wii have different core customers.

I suspect that you've misunderstood.

There is no category of gamers that are inherently part of, or not part of, the "core" for any console. While a larger part of the core for the PS3 and 360 will be FPS fans, the core spreads over all genres, all styles of play, etc. Indeed, the core for a console typically do not restrict themselves to a single genre or group of genres, and instead will buy a broad variety of games.

For instance, I'm probably part of the core on the Wii. I own a diverse collection including Call of Duty: World at War, No More Heroes, Epic Mickey, Dewy's Adventure, and Wii Music, just to name a few. I bought the system at launch. My collection, if I weren't financially limited right now (basically, for the last year, I haven't bought myself a game, the few games I've gotten have been gifts) and lacking in free time, would probably be well over 50 games by now. One cannot target the core of the console, except by making quality games.

Meanwhile, the "Core Market" varies from developer to developer, based on the people who are most likely to buy a game from that developer. It generally cannot be neatly pigeonholed, though, unless the developer has positioned themselves firmly within a niche - in which case, they're (the developer, not the core market) going to die a slow, painful death.

Of course there is a core, which is not the same on HD/Wii. If you take a look at the top 10 selling Wii software (Wii sports, Wii fit and WFP, Wii play, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort, NSMB Wii, SSBB, SMG, Mario&Sonic olympics and Mario Party 8) and compare them to what sells on HD consoles you can easily see that the core customer is very different.

Of course there is some overlap, but that is virtually negligible.

And guess what, most likely you aren't the core customer on Wii.



Mummelmann said:
RVDondaPC said:

The casual market does not bring in more money, especially over time(Atleast not on Video game consoles.) Not only does their software bring in less revenue per game sold(they're generally priced at $50 or $40 to start, compared to $60) but the core market is mostly split between the PS3 and 360. If you add up the software sold by the two "Core" consoles they far outweigh the Wii. Just because the most successful company caters to the casual audience, doesn't mean it's the biggest market nor the most important. It was just the most ignored and thus had the biggest opportunity to be captured by a single company. The biggest software sellers for casual games (Wii sports and now Kinect Adventures), don't even bring in any revenue. They are bundled for free. Compare that to the Call of Duty games which probably sells 75% of their stock at full price ($60 in America). So not only is there more core games sold, but for every 5 full priced core games, 6 casual games have to be sold to match the revenue. Don't know how the pricing works around the rest of the world but I could imagine it's somewhat similar. The "core" consoles also cost much more money to purchase than the "casual" machine, thus bringing in even more revenue. 

Now that the competition for the "casual" market is heating up, the core market will become a goldmine for whoever caters to it the most in the coming years and coming generation. MS is being smart with their Kinect, especially short term, but i hope they don't forget about the core audience. Or else they will regret it when they all go back to the playstation brand. 

Actually (concerning things like Farmville and the like), the most casual games are either free or cost a few bucks on appstores, the 95% number someone mentioned must be pertaining to these gamers and they certainly do not bring in more money save for revenue from ads. Casual gamers spend a lot less on gaming in general (and with plug-in's such as adblock the ads are losing ground in the revenue stake as well), probably less than 10% of that of a "hardcore" gamer. If you sell and iPhone game to two million users for 5$ a pop, that's still pocket change compared to a lot of bigger games on consoles (yes, console games cost a lot more to develop but they are also generally more profitable). Dozens of small developers going for the mobile market (Ngage and others for instance) went bankrupt practically overnight and the best deal in all of it is for the owner of the platform or appstore (like Apple charging 30% royalties for almost everything they distribute and sell over their closed store concept).

The casual market is vast though and can certainly bring in a lot of money but they are fickle and can't be relied on as a source of income longterm (like you said) and that remains the biggest challenge in this market.

Wait what?
Farmville makes more money then any game other then maybe WoW or Call of Duty. For those game a majority is casual gamers anyway. 

Also, keep in mind development budget. An iphone game can be made by 1 person for little to no budget. Selling 2 million at $5 iS HUGE for that 1 person.

Having a huge budget on a hardcore game, that MIGHT sell 1 million, and after paying publishers, marketing etc, they'll be lucky to make $30 a copy split among hundreds of people.

Which is better?



Antabus said:

Of course there is a core, which is not the same on HD/Wii. If you take a look at the top 10 selling Wii software (Wii sports, Wii fit and WFP, Wii play, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort, NSMB Wii, SSBB, SMG, Mario&Sonic olympics and Mario Party 8) and compare them to what sells on HD consoles you can easily see that the core customer is very different.

Of course there is some overlap, but that is virtually negligible.

And guess what, most likely you aren't the core customer on Wii.


Translation: I don't like the Wii, so therefore I'm going to conclude that the "core" is the people I don't like.

You don't have any clue whatsoever what you're talking about, Antabus. I suggest you stop, now.

But please, don't let trivial things like facts and definitions get in the way of your opinion.



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Aielyn said:

Antabus said:

Of course there is a core, which is not the same on HD/Wii. If you take a look at the top 10 selling Wii software (Wii sports, Wii fit and WFP, Wii play, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort, NSMB Wii, SSBB, SMG, Mario&Sonic olympics and Mario Party 8) and compare them to what sells on HD consoles you can easily see that the core customer is very different.

Of course there is some overlap, but that is virtually negligible.

And guess what, most likely you aren't the core customer on Wii.


Translation: I don't like the Wii, so therefore I'm going to conclude that the "core" is the people I don't like.

You don't have any clue whatsoever what you're talking about, Antabus. I suggest you stop, now.

But please, don't let trivial things like facts and definitions get in the way of your opinion.

Aielyn is off here.  His comment isn't about hating on the Wii, but more to what "Core" translates to.  "Core" is the demographic that buys the highest % of the software/games for a system.  So, by saying that the Core for the Wii are casual gamers and the the core for both the 360/PS3 are FPS would be statistically accurate.  So when a person buys games from all genre's for a Wii, they are not a typical core customer that only buys 4-7 games for their system total and they are all the most basic Nintendo staple titles regardless of quality.  Atleast that's what i think!



landguy1 said:
Aielyn said:

Antabus said:

Of course there is a core, which is not the same on HD/Wii. If you take a look at the top 10 selling Wii software (Wii sports, Wii fit and WFP, Wii play, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort, NSMB Wii, SSBB, SMG, Mario&Sonic olympics and Mario Party 8) and compare them to what sells on HD consoles you can easily see that the core customer is very different.

Of course there is some overlap, but that is virtually negligible.

And guess what, most likely you aren't the core customer on Wii.


Translation: I don't like the Wii, so therefore I'm going to conclude that the "core" is the people I don't like.

You don't have any clue whatsoever what you're talking about, Antabus. I suggest you stop, now.

But please, don't let trivial things like facts and definitions get in the way of your opinion.

Aielyn is off here.  His comment isn't about hating on the Wii, but more to what "Core" translates to.  "Core" is the demographic that buys the highest % of the software/games for a system.  So, by saying that the Core for the Wii are casual gamers and the the core for both the 360/PS3 are FPS would be statistically accurate.  So when a person buys games from all genre's for a Wii, they are not a typical core customer that only buys 4-7 games for their system total and they are all the most basic Nintendo staple titles regardless of quality.  Atleast that's what i think!

"Demographic" is a word that a lot of people invoke, but few people understand.

And the fact that you've just referred to "casual gamers" emphasises this point. "Casual gamer" is not a demographic. It isn't even close to being a demographic. What's more, the core customer isn't the average customer, it's the customer that will continue to support you as the overall market shrinks. It's the core, the dependable nucleus.



I disagree that the core market stays loyal.

Where was the Core market when the Gamecube was in last place?

Where did Sega's core market go come Dreamcst?

Core gamers are nothing but Casual gamers who take things more seriously, feel more entitled and often complain more.

When people talk about targeting "core gamers" it's a code word for "niche gamers" that makes niche gamers feel exclusive rather then having weird out of the mainstream tastes.

All consoles target Casuals and only fall back to a "core" position when they aren't winning.



Kasz216 said:

I disagree that the core market stays loyal.

Where was the Core market when the Gamecube was in last place?

Where did Sega's core market go come Dreamcst?

Core gamers are nothing but Casual gamers who take things more seriously, feel more entitled and often complain more.

When people talk about targeting "core gamers" it's a code word for "niche gamers" that makes niche gamers feel exclusive rather then having weird out of the mainstream tastes.

All consoles target Casuals and only fall back to a "core" position when they aren't winning.

*facepalm*

There's a difference between being loyal and staying loyal. The core changes over time, as people fluctuate in and out... but while they're "in", they're loyal. Plus, when the GameCube was in last place, who do you think it was that was buying all the games for it? How is it that Resident Evil 4 on the GC sold almost as well as the PS2 version, despite only about one fifth the install base?

As I said, "targetting core gamers" doesn't make sense - you target them by making quality games; if you start putting too many poor-quality titles out, the core will notice, and will disappear. This is why Nintendo's core has always remained so strong - no matter what other developers do on Nintendo systems, Nintendo makes sure there's always quality titles on the system.

Where the GameCube failed was that it didn't have enough to attract other people to the system. All it had was its core.

EDIT: Also note that I talked of loyalty in terms of company, and not console. Sega's core are still buying Sega games - they're just doing it on another system. Remember, the Dreamcast sold over 8 million units.



"It varies from the big 3" for me.

To understand this, I have to define what is "core" and "casual." The "core" are what we stereotypically think of as gamers. Males aged 5 to 40 who play games as their hobby. If they aren't working, socializing, or attending to family needs, you will find them in front of a television or computer screen.

Your "casual" gamer is who none of us would consider a gamer. The games they choose to purchase are purchased on whim or due to fad and advertising. They play sparingly less than 2 hours per session. The games they play are not overly deep, instead they are more like NES and SNES games where you can pick up and play at any time without worrying or spending anytime getting reacquainted with the story, progress in the game, or the mechanics of the game.

The "core" is important to all three in different ways. Nintendo's "core" games (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Donkey Kong, and on) are not overly complicated games. They are platformers or action-adventure games where one  can pick up and play them at any time. Too often, Nintendo's "core" games are viewed and ridiculed as "casual" by "core" gamers. However, I am sure Nintendo could care less what Sony or Microsoft's "core" thinks when their "core" games are outselling Microsoft's and Sony's by a margin of 3:1 or more.

In contrast, the "core" games for both Sony and Microsoft are very complicated games. Gears of War, Killzone, Gran Turismo, Halo, Mass Effect, Call of Duty, Fable, God of War, Uncharted and on. All are complicated because they require at minimum, a level of expertise in controls. Digging deeper, to fully enjoy them one needs to immerse themself in the background story and have a comfortable level of familiarity with the mechanics of the game such as "jump height, XP, RPG stats, aim down sight speed, reload speed, and on." One cannot pick up and play these games, one needs to practice them to be good at them.

The "casual" market is preeminent undisputably because it is a market without limits. Nintendo has shown this and Microsoft is showing this with the Kinect. Tapping into the "casual" market requires a back to basics focus on instinctual, easy to learn, hard to master gameplay and multi-million dollar advertising campaigns to reach everyone on up to grandmothers and grandfathers.

In contrast, the "core" market has very firm limits as Sega and Atari have shown. To use an analogy, catering to the "core" is equivalent to catering only to the drama club and music club in high school, while catering to the "casual" is catering to the entire high school. Yes, catering to the "core" will get you a guaranteed amount of the pie, but you are only getting a few pieces of the pie, while catering to the "casuals" gives you a greater chance to not only get the "core's" piece of the pie, but even more on up to the entire pie.

Without a doubt, both markets are important. The "core," if you please them will remain loyal to the extent of rabidly defending you on the Internet. The "casual" market is the future, it is marketing to entire populations in nations. However, the "casual" market is not to be relied upon. Like fashion trends, what was trendy yesterday will be remembered with chuckles and "Oh I didn't buy that" type banter today. The "casual" market may get you bigger profits, but future profits with similar marketing techniques will not be guaranteed tomorrow.

Or to use gamers language, you can bet with near 100% certainty the "core" will buy more than 2 new games each year. Chances a "casual" gamer will do that is 50% or less. However, there are and will always be more "casual" than "core" gamers.