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Forums - Sales Discussion - Is Epic Mickey a lesson to third parties?

pacman91 said:
Squilliam said:

Lesson 1: Use licensed I.P. Check! Notice how the game sold in the U.S.  compared to the E.U where Mickey is far more popular than in Europe?

Lesson 2: Good game design is paramount no matter what innovation you want to bring to the table.

Lesson 3: Legendary game designers can do well on any game system. Hire more of them. (If you can)

Lesson 4: A game worth buying is a game worth marketing.

Lesson 5: Wii titles do well if they have important keywords like 'Party, Dance, Epic, Wii, Mario' in them. Try to make up your title with as many as reasonably possible. In this case we have 'Epic' and 'Mickey', Mickey being almost as well known as Mario these days in the U.S. sure helps.

Boom Blox Bash Party didn't do so well...and that was a quality innovative title from...EA

Lesson 6: not made by EA. :)

 

noname2200 said:
Torillian said:

Could be a lesson about all those things, or it could just be a lesson that when you base a video game off one of the most popular cartoon characters and most well known IPs of all time it's likely to do well unless you totally fuck it up, which isn't really a lesson.

At first I was going to agree, but then I remembered that this isn't exactly the first bite at the apple for Mickey.  While most of them have been stinkers, I double-checked the sales for Mickey's Speedway USA ( a pretty solid title with nearly the same metacritic rating as Epic Mickey), and while it didn't sell terribly, it didn't sell all that great either.  So there's more to it than just this.

It's not like this never happened before.



MikeB predicts that the PS3 will sell about 140 million units by the end of 2016 and triple the amount of 360s in the long run.

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noname2200 said:
oniyide said:

 The Wii is not that much viable when it comes to arcade racers...

?

Protip: Always ignore the 800-pound Gorilla in the room. It makes analysis of the game industry so so much easier



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

pacman91 said:

I wonder if these sales would be possible from a sequel.  The original Boom Blox sold really well.  However it's sequel, which added tons of new content, better controls, and pseudo online, did not.  Steven Speilberg was even a big name behind the game. Red Steel 2 had a similar problem(although piracy probably was the greatest problem in this case).  Whether it be sports titles, puzzle, or racing or any other genre, when wii fans have their quota they are content.


 While the Wii's track record to sequels is a bit iffy at times, I think the inevitable successor to this will be fine - as chances are it won't so much be an 'Epic Mickey 2' as it will be an 'Epic Donald Duck' or something that has enough to distinguish itself and entice Wii buyers to not think it's just more of the same.



Degausser said:
pacman91 said:

I wonder if these sales would be possible from a sequel.  The original Boom Blox sold really well.  However it's sequel, which added tons of new content, better controls, and pseudo online, did not.  Steven Speilberg was even a big name behind the game. Red Steel 2 had a similar problem(although piracy probably was the greatest problem in this case).  Whether it be sports titles, puzzle, or racing or any other genre, when wii fans have their quota they are content.


 While the Wii's track record to sequels is a bit iffy at times, I think the inevitable successor to this will be fine - as chances are it won't so much be an 'Epic Mickey 2' as it will be an 'Epic Donald Duck' or something that has enough to distinguish itself and entice Wii buyers to not think it's just more of the same.

The title of the successor will be More Epic Donald and it will sell more than 5 million copies.



RolStoppable said:
Degausser said:

 I know what you're saying, but this isn't a one off in Disney's case and so I'm leading myself to believe that there must be more of a reason that these games hit the PSP and not Wii. You said it yourself, publishers happily ported some PS2 / PSP games, so why not these ones? There must be more of a reason then simply because they hate the Wii or something - and I'm trying to reason that. 

 From what I've seen, with alot of the titles on every platform like movie tie ins, the Wii / PS2 / PSP version is often develoepd by an entirely different studio to the PS3 / 360 / PC. Thus my logic is whereas a small team of people at Blackrock can get a PSP version up and running on minimal budget - to make an SD version which runs on the console would require more people, more money and as shown in other instances may require the hiring of another studio altogether. 

 So my guess is whereas 'downscaling' from PS2 / Wii to PSP is cheap and easy, maybe going the other way isn't? I don't really know enough about game technology to say so can anyone with a better knowledge help? I'm going off what I read and see, and while lots of Wii / PS2 games appear on PSP, I can't think of many previous PSP exclusives going in the opposite direction - aside from a few Sony games which were likely developed with the plan for porting all along.

 Publisher like money, and if putting these PSP games on the Wii was as easy as you let on, then they'd port them just like they did with the various PS2 ports at launch and whatever else.

Downscaling requires additional work (for example: drawing textures new, decreasing polygon counts of character models and objects to keep the framerate at an acceptable level) while putting the same exact game on a more powerful platform does not. Of course there is the option to improve textures and models when porting to a more powerful system, but it's no requirement to make the game work in the first place.

Publishers like money, but that doesn't mean they can't make decisions that leave money on the table and PSP versions of HD games that see no Wii ports are simply mindboggling, because the usual excuse for "HD multiplatform, but not Wii" has been that creating SD assets would require too much additional work. The other prominent excuse was "third party games don't sell well on the Wii", but that would apply even moreso for the PSP. That's why it's hard to see any business sense involved in these PSP games, unless the plan of third parties is to deliberately lock out the Wii and propel up other platforms that they rather want to see the market ruling.

All the publishers have ported lots of games to the Wii already, so why not these ones? There has to be a reason other then an attempt to 'lock out' the Wii as well, they've all ported games to the thing before, not every publisher would do it and they all make exclusives for the console. 

 I don't think either of us know enough about game developement to really say what can and cant be done easily - however all articles I've found regarding this of thing point towards my idea that doing a PSP game alone is simply cheaper and faster. The two linked below both have PSP developement cited as much cheaper then Wii developement, which could easily explain why these games (Which would off of sales date both be poised to sell roughly the same on Wii and PSP) are only financially viable on the cheaper costing PSP.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/36428/3DS-dev-costs-mirror-Wii-equivalent

http://www.watchmojo.com/blog/video_games/2010/11/22/3ds-game-development-cost-comparable-with-wii/

 It also destroys this idea that a PSP game simply be ported to the Wii for no cost, as well otherwise the Wii dev costs would be equal to that of the PSP as people would just make a Wii game for the PSP and then port it :P.

 The only example i can remember of a PSP game being ported to the Wii was that MEdal of Honour: Heroes 2 game. It had an extra game mode or something, but the port still took EA 4 months from announcement to come out, hardly an insignificient investment of time and money.



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I'm under the impression that, often times, whenever the Wii attains a title that achieves any type of success, there is always a half-assed outlier made up in an attempt to negates its authenticity.

This impression has only been enforced in this thread.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

@rolstoppable but PSP has had games that have done well in that genre, the Wii not so much. So maybe the devs were foolish enough to think that they could capture that spark??? THe Wii never had that spark for those kind of games to begin with. Yes, i dont think the games should have been made, ill go so far as to say that HD games should not get ported down to Wii or PSP at all. Either they put some b team on it and it sucks(Hot pursuit) they do manage to get it to work but by that time no one will care and whoever wanted to play the game have had there fill (soul calibur broken destiny) or its just some versionthats not as good and will sell worst than the HDs anyway (spiderman, force unleashed 2, etc) UNLESS they actually do something drastically different and make it good, which is rare is the only way I can see it work (force unleashed 1 for Wii was good) and of course the more family oriented games are going to do better no matter what (Toy Story 3, even though it was missing that key toy box feature)



@noname  Mario Kart is not an arcade racer, its a kart game, even so thats still just one game, what about the others, why does Wii owners not buy those? (they probably suck)

@Degausser again you are the voice of reason and might I add that the PSP version of MOH heroes 2 still outsole the Wii version



oniyide said:

^^^ here we go again. "waaah, you made that game for this system but why not mine??" no offense but some of y'all sound like jealous kids

@Declan  just cause it got a sequel doesnt mean it did well. less than half a mil with a install base like Wii, a FPS that is supposedly a genre that is "better" on Wii because of "superior" control?? that is nothing to be proud of. ive seen FPSs on PS3 with worst reviews and little advertisement do better

I wasn't really suggesting that it did well (in terms of huge sales) - I was kind of suggesting that for a game to sell as The Conduit did and still get a sequel it mustn't have cost a huge amount to make (nowhere near the likes of, say, Assassins Creed, RE5 etc. - third party HD blockbusters).  In that regard, it didn't meet all the criteria set out in the OP.



oniyide said:

@noname  Mario Kart is not an arcade racer, its a kart game, even so thats still just one game, what about the others, why does Wii owners not buy those? (they probably suck)

I'm not sure you're using the same definiton of "arcade racer" as the rest of us.  As far as I know, you're the only person who puts them in a separate category because they're riding go-karts instead of regular cars, hovercraft, or some other racing contraption. 

As for other racing games, arcade or simluation, there have been a grand total of five others on the system, three of which I've never heard of.  And one of those five is the NASCAR racing game, which is the sixth best-selling NASCAR game of all time on any console.