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Forums - Gaming - Is JRPGs dying?

Reasonable said:

Nope.  They simply haven't grown in popularity in line with other genres, at least in the West.  There's also be a continued move towards JRPGs on the go via handhelds.

In some ways it's a shame, as it would be nice to see people chose to mix up more simplistic realtime game mechanics with the ability to have more complex, turn based mechanics that offer a different gameplay challenge.

So I do see that the nature of JRPGs vs the trends in gameplay in the West don't mix to well.  Most Western gamers want more immediate, realtime experiences and the majority don't seem interested in more complex turn based systems.

The traditional mix of gameplay vs long cinematics has also hurt the genre in the West vs current trends.

I do think some JRPGs are showing signs of a crysis trying to respond by simplifying the combat but leaving the cinematics, which is probably worse as they may actually be pleasing potentially less of their fanbase.  My view would be to leave the mechanics and deliver depth as a selling point but cut down the cut-scene length's considerably.


Crisis not Crysis. Crysis is a game not a world in the English language.

and there are meany different types of JRPGs not just traditional turn based ones ARPG, TRPG, SRPG to name a few also games like Persona have long since used a party of 3 with a payer controlled leader and AI team and Persona is Very popular what JRPG really need is to get more appeal outside of existing established Fanbase.        



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FinalEvangelion said:

In some ways I think voice acting and better visuals have done some harm.

 

When we were all playing with 2D sprites, we never had the "guys look like girls, therefore I'm not playing it" stupidity.  I'm sorry, I just get tired of hearing that without any kind of research into the culture in why that's true.  Also, we never had to worry about bad voice acting.

 

Overall, I think the genre is going through what 2D platformers went through in the late 90s early 00s.  2D platformers have made a comeback this generation.  For a while, I think we will be seeing most jRPGs on handhelds / Japan only, which is sad.  I suppose it's what I need to learn the Japanese language better.

 

I'm not sure Western games have really evolved so much as they have become more accessible.  Previously, Western games were more for PCs - which had limited appeal.

 

For the next decade or so, I see primarily shooters and casual games ruling the roost.  It doesn't help that Japan is in one of the worst economic times ever since WW2.

agreed even now there a lot of JRPG on PS3 that are not getting releases outside Japan like TOV PS3 TOGF PS3 and others. HD Game developments unfortunately is rather expensive at the moment so it is harder for smaller and more niche JRPGs to get a release outside Japan. Console manufactures should be more willing to publish them to help out with publishing expenses. I do believe as HD Game development gets cheaper we will see more though. 

also I agree that it is sad that some western Gamers can not understand or except the bishonen and bishojo characters used in Japanese games as well as Anime. 

       



Japanese Pop Culture Otaku

lestatdark said:

The problem is that JRPG's, today, is a genre that's on the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

For as many expert media, gamers and even JRPG fans rage about the fact that the genre's molds have trying to adapt to standards that don't have anything to do with genre itself, forgetting, as you said quite well, what made them be an exceptional genre back in those days; there's a counter-force who's always criticizing JRPG's for being a genre that's subject to similar cliches and that they don't feel the genre has changed anything from those days. 

And then, in the end, there are those who constantly forget that handhelds do exist and that the genre is quite alive and well in them. But this is more of a "la-la-la-la I can't hear you, if I don't acknowledge it, it doesn't exist, la-la-la".



I dont think jRPG fan are blind to the handheld releases. First theres people who prefer to play on TV. Second, handheld RPG arent generally the same experience. Most of the time they are either a remake, short, a repetitive grindfest or a multiplayer action/RPG, they can even be all of that at the same time.

Take Suikoden tierkis as example, its one the few handheld jRPG I really liked, but its nothing compare to the PS1/PS2 one. No army battle, no 108 characters to recruit ect. Same goes for Final Fantasy crisis core, it was enjoyable, but it was also damn repetive even though it was actually a short jRPG. I guess with bigger storage capacity on the next generation of handheld it might get better for my taste.



I don't think they are dying.  It's just that we now know how well the obscure JRPGs are selling.  Years ago, people only knew that Pokemon and Squaresoft games were selling millions which gave some people the impression that JRPGs were bigger back then they really were.



Icyedge said:
lestatdark said:
 

The problem is that JRPG's, today, is a genre that's on the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

For as many expert media, gamers and even JRPG fans rage about the fact that the genre's molds have trying to adapt to standards that don't have anything to do with genre itself, forgetting, as you said quite well, what made them be an exceptional genre back in those days; there's a counter-force who's always criticizing JRPG's for being a genre that's subject to similar cliches and that they don't feel the genre has changed anything from those days. 

And then, in the end, there are those who constantly forget that handhelds do exist and that the genre is quite alive and well in them. But this is more of a "la-la-la-la I can't hear you, if I don't acknowledge it, it doesn't exist, la-la-la".



I dont think jRPG fan are blind to the handheld releases. First theres people who prefer to play on TV. Second, handheld RPG arent generally the same experience. Most of the time they are either a remake, short, a repetitive grindfest or a multiplayer action/RPG, they can even be all of that at the same time.

Take Suikoden tierkis as example, its one the few handheld jRPG I really liked, but its nothing compare to the PS1/PS2 one. No army battle, no 108 characters to recruit ect. Same goes for Final Fantasy crisis core, it was enjoyable, but it was also damn repetive even though it was actually a short jRPG. I guess with bigger storage capacity on the next generation of handheld it might get better for my taste.

I could easily counter that last paragraph with another two examples.

Dragon Quest IX is easily the biggest DQ game ever made, with massive amount of unique quests, which extend the story-line of the game for over the 100 hours mark, some of the biggest character customization options in any JRPG and it's an overall massive game. You can easily put 200 hours into it, without becoming repetitive and you wouldn't still have done everything in it.

Kingdom Hearts BBS is also one of the biggest, if not the biggest KH game so far. It also has the largest amount of mini-games, the most complex battle system and an overlaying story spanning three characters which easily crosses the 25 hour mark for each one, and the entire game will easily cross the 100 hour mark, if you wish to do everything in it, easily out-shadowing previous PS2 iterations.

These are just some few examples. I could have also talked about TWEWY, Mario&Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story and many other JRPG's available for handhelds. While there's bound to be some disappointing continuations to existing series (situation that happens even on home consoles) and some short JRPG experiences, there's also a lot of games that are quite unique and expansive as the previous home consoles games were.



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Cunning_Linguist said:

Ar Tonelico 3, Hyperdimension: Neptunia, Valkyria Chronicles 3, Atelier Totori, WKC2, Trinity:Souls, plus many I have forgotten plus a gazillion portable ones.

I would venture there will be more JRPG releases on home consoles this year than any other this gen so far.

Yeah i said something similar to this earlier in this thead, about how loads of JRPGs have been localised in Europe like never before. Magna Carta 2, Resonance of Fate, Altier Ronda: Alchemist of Arland, Tales of Vesperia, Infinite Undiscovery, Agarest, Eternal Sonata, Last Rebellion etc. i think part of the reason is Microsoft have helped developers localise JRPGs so they can target the JRPG market here in the west.

anyway i'm not sure if 200,000 copies sold in Europe (or whatever sold in the west) qualifies as success for the JRPG developers. but i think we will see more localisations in future for consoles, because the console market here is a lot bigger than in Japan, which is smaller now than it used to be. so developers rely now more on the western sales than they have done in the past.

here in the west i would say JRPGs are actully growing in interest. also partly to do with the proliferation of anime and manga here, that wasnt present before. i think the only reason people think RPGs are in decline are because of the handheld focus in Japan, and the weak shoulders of the Final Fantasy series recently. Japan, dosent have that problem because there are more important JRPGs there than FF.



A203D said:
Cunning_Linguist said:

Ar Tonelico 3, Hyperdimension: Neptunia, Valkyria Chronicles 3, Atelier Totori, WKC2, Trinity:Souls, plus many I have forgotten plus a gazillion portable ones.

I would venture there will be more JRPG releases on home consoles this year than any other this gen so far.

Yeah i said something similar to this earlier in this thead, about how loads of JRPGs have been localised in Europe like never before. Magna Carta 2, Resonance of Fate, Altier Ronda: Alchemist of Arland, Tales of Vesperia, Infinite Undiscovery, Agarest, Eternal Sonata, Last Rebellion etc. i think part of the reason is Microsoft have helped developers localise JRPGs so they can target the JRPG market here in the west.

anyway i'm not sure if 200,000 copies sold in Europe (or whatever sold in the west) qualifies as success for the JRPG developers. but i think we will see more localisations in future for consoles, because the console market here is a lot bigger than in Japan, which is smaller now than it used to be. so developers rely now more on the western sales than they have done in the past.

here in the west i would say JRPGs are actully growing in interest. also partly to do with the proliferation of anime and manga here, that wasnt present before. i think the only reason people think RPGs are in decline are because of the handheld focus in Japan, and the weak shoulders of the Final Fantasy series recently. Japan, dosent have that problem because there are more important JRPGs there than FF.

Id not a JRPG it is made in Korea.

and Last Rebellion was always intended for the West it never had a Japanese Voice cast.

also it is one of the worst RPGs ever made. 



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lestatdark said:
Icyedge said:
lestatdark said:
 

The problem is that JRPG's, today, is a genre that's on the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

For as many expert media, gamers and even JRPG fans rage about the fact that the genre's molds have trying to adapt to standards that don't have anything to do with genre itself, forgetting, as you said quite well, what made them be an exceptional genre back in those days; there's a counter-force who's always criticizing JRPG's for being a genre that's subject to similar cliches and that they don't feel the genre has changed anything from those days. 

And then, in the end, there are those who constantly forget that handhelds do exist and that the genre is quite alive and well in them. But this is more of a "la-la-la-la I can't hear you, if I don't acknowledge it, it doesn't exist, la-la-la".



I dont think jRPG fan are blind to the handheld releases. First theres people who prefer to play on TV. Second, handheld RPG arent generally the same experience. Most of the time they are either a remake, short, a repetitive grindfest or a multiplayer action/RPG, they can even be all of that at the same time.

Take Suikoden tierkis as example, its one the few handheld jRPG I really liked, but its nothing compare to the PS1/PS2 one. No army battle, no 108 characters to recruit ect. Same goes for Final Fantasy crisis core, it was enjoyable, but it was also damn repetive even though it was actually a short jRPG. I guess with bigger storage capacity on the next generation of handheld it might get better for my taste.

I could easily counter that last paragraph with another two examples.

Dragon Quest IX is easily the biggest DQ game ever made, with massive amount of unique quests, which extend the story-line of the game for over the 100 hours mark, some of the biggest character customization options in any JRPG and it's an overall massive game. You can easily put 200 hours into it, without becoming repetitive and you wouldn't still have done everything in it.

Kingdom Hearts BBS is also one of the biggest, if not the biggest KH game so far. It also has the largest amount of mini-games, the most complex battle system and an overlaying story spanning three characters which easily crosses the 25 hour mark for each one, and the entire game will easily cross the 100 hour mark, if you wish to do everything in it, easily out-shadowing previous PS2 iterations.

These are just some few examples. I could have also talked about TWEWY, Mario&Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story and many other JRPG's available for handhelds. While there's bound to be some disappointing continuations to existing series (situation that happens even on home consoles) and some short JRPG experiences, there's also a lot of games that are quite unique and expansive as the previous home consoles games were

 

I said, most of them, not all of them. I only selected 2 examples so we understand what im talking about. As a whole, handheld jRPG fit with what I said. (Most of the time they are either a remake, short, a repetitive grindfest or a multiplayer action/RPG). If I were to do a list of PSP and DS jrpg that fit those criterias it would be quite extensive.



Icyedge said:
lestatdark said:
Icyedge said:
lestatdark said:
 

The problem is that JRPG's, today, is a genre that's on the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

For as many expert media, gamers and even JRPG fans rage about the fact that the genre's molds have trying to adapt to standards that don't have anything to do with genre itself, forgetting, as you said quite well, what made them be an exceptional genre back in those days; there's a counter-force who's always criticizing JRPG's for being a genre that's subject to similar cliches and that they don't feel the genre has changed anything from those days. 

And then, in the end, there are those who constantly forget that handhelds do exist and that the genre is quite alive and well in them. But this is more of a "la-la-la-la I can't hear you, if I don't acknowledge it, it doesn't exist, la-la-la".



I dont think jRPG fan are blind to the handheld releases. First theres people who prefer to play on TV. Second, handheld RPG arent generally the same experience. Most of the time they are either a remake, short, a repetitive grindfest or a multiplayer action/RPG, they can even be all of that at the same time.

Take Suikoden tierkis as example, its one the few handheld jRPG I really liked, but its nothing compare to the PS1/PS2 one. No army battle, no 108 characters to recruit ect. Same goes for Final Fantasy crisis core, it was enjoyable, but it was also damn repetive even though it was actually a short jRPG. I guess with bigger storage capacity on the next generation of handheld it might get better for my taste.

I could easily counter that last paragraph with another two examples.

Dragon Quest IX is easily the biggest DQ game ever made, with massive amount of unique quests, which extend the story-line of the game for over the 100 hours mark, some of the biggest character customization options in any JRPG and it's an overall massive game. You can easily put 200 hours into it, without becoming repetitive and you wouldn't still have done everything in it.

Kingdom Hearts BBS is also one of the biggest, if not the biggest KH game so far. It also has the largest amount of mini-games, the most complex battle system and an overlaying story spanning three characters which easily crosses the 25 hour mark for each one, and the entire game will easily cross the 100 hour mark, if you wish to do everything in it, easily out-shadowing previous PS2 iterations.

These are just some few examples. I could have also talked about TWEWY, Mario&Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story and many other JRPG's available for handhelds. While there's bound to be some disappointing continuations to existing series (situation that happens even on home consoles) and some short JRPG experiences, there's also a lot of games that are quite unique and expansive as the previous home consoles games were

 

I said, most of them, not all of them. I only selected 2 examples so we understand what im talking about. As a whole, handheld jRPG fit with what I said. (Most of the time they are either a remake, short, a repetitive grindfest or a multiplayer action/RPG). If I were to do a list of PSP and DS jrpg that fit those criterias it would be quite extensive.

You can find an equal share of both JRPGs that fit your criteria and JRPGs that are quite unique or that are very good examples of the genre, which is a similar situation to what happened in every other console that had an extensive library of JRPGs.

As much as I love the SNES JRPG library (it's my favourite console with the best library IMO), there were also quite a number of games that could easily fit the criteria that you enumerated. 

If anything, the current generation of handheld JRPGs, has done an amazing job trying to at least match the quality of the SNES era library.



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lestatdark said:
Icyedge said:
lestatdark said:
Icyedge said:
lestatdark said:
 

The problem is that JRPG's, today, is a genre that's on the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

For as many expert media, gamers and even JRPG fans rage about the fact that the genre's molds have trying to adapt to standards that don't have anything to do with genre itself, forgetting, as you said quite well, what made them be an exceptional genre back in those days; there's a counter-force who's always criticizing JRPG's for being a genre that's subject to similar cliches and that they don't feel the genre has changed anything from those days. 

And then, in the end, there are those who constantly forget that handhelds do exist and that the genre is quite alive and well in them. But this is more of a "la-la-la-la I can't hear you, if I don't acknowledge it, it doesn't exist, la-la-la".



I dont think jRPG fan are blind to the handheld releases. First theres people who prefer to play on TV. Second, handheld RPG arent generally the same experience. Most of the time they are either a remake, short, a repetitive grindfest or a multiplayer action/RPG, they can even be all of that at the same time.

Take Suikoden tierkis as example, its one the few handheld jRPG I really liked, but its nothing compare to the PS1/PS2 one. No army battle, no 108 characters to recruit ect. Same goes for Final Fantasy crisis core, it was enjoyable, but it was also damn repetive even though it was actually a short jRPG. I guess with bigger storage capacity on the next generation of handheld it might get better for my taste.

I could easily counter that last paragraph with another two examples.

Dragon Quest IX is easily the biggest DQ game ever made, with massive amount of unique quests, which extend the story-line of the game for over the 100 hours mark, some of the biggest character customization options in any JRPG and it's an overall massive game. You can easily put 200 hours into it, without becoming repetitive and you wouldn't still have done everything in it.

Kingdom Hearts BBS is also one of the biggest, if not the biggest KH game so far. It also has the largest amount of mini-games, the most complex battle system and an overlaying story spanning three characters which easily crosses the 25 hour mark for each one, and the entire game will easily cross the 100 hour mark, if you wish to do everything in it, easily out-shadowing previous PS2 iterations.

These are just some few examples. I could have also talked about TWEWY, Mario&Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story and many other JRPG's available for handhelds. While there's bound to be some disappointing continuations to existing series (situation that happens even on home consoles) and some short JRPG experiences, there's also a lot of games that are quite unique and expansive as the previous home consoles games were

 

I said, most of them, not all of them. I only selected 2 examples so we understand what im talking about. As a whole, handheld jRPG fit with what I said. (Most of the time they are either a remake, short, a repetitive grindfest or a multiplayer action/RPG). If I were to do a list of PSP and DS jrpg that fit those criterias it would be quite extensive.

You can find an equal share of both JRPGs that fit your criteria and JRPGs that are quite unique or that are very good examples of the genre, which is a similar situation to what happened in every other console that had an extensive library of JRPGs.

As much as I love the SNES JRPG library (it's my favourite console with the best library IMO), there were also quite a number of games that could easily fit the criteria that you enumerated. 

If anything, the current generation of handheld JRPGs, has done an amazing job trying to at least match the quality of the SNES era library.

I agree with your point with the snes. I was comparing to the PS1/PS2/PS3/Xbox era. I still stand by my words that most of current handheld jRPG fit my previous criteria. The list would be more extensive then the few games that doest fit in them. Think about it for a minute. Half of them already fit in the remake or short criterias, that before we even start evaluating the grindfest one or the one that focus on multiplayer over story. That doesnt mean I dont aknowledge some may actually prefer this. Im talking for myself.

I didnt agree with your "la-la-la-la I can't hear you, if I don't acknowledge it, it doesn't exist, la-la-la", im well aware there is a lot of jRPG on the handhelds (obviously since I played most of them), still I dont like the current jRPG offering compared to previous gen. Fair enough no?