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Forums - Sony Discussion - So what will Sony do to fix the exploit?

snakenobi said:
twesterm said:
snakenobi said:
twesterm said:
 

I think you're missing what I'm saying-- as long as the old key works for anything, it will always work for whatever homebrew they make. 

It doesn't matter if they suddenly started using a new key, the old key will always work.  The only way to get rid of that old key is to completely revoke for everything.

i know but the old key once changed will not

the old key can be locked on the newer stuff

 

the old stuff will still work

 

the new stuff's decrytion would e diffferent

 

the hackers could still hack it but it will take some time


You're either messing with me or you're just completely incapable of grasping the concept.  Either way I'm saying it one more time and I'm done with you--

If the old key works for anything they always have a way in.  No matter how many new keys they make, it will affect them in now way at all.  The old key would still work and would continue to work unless they revoked it and made everything before that obselete.

The key has to do with convincing the PS3 that your app is legitimate, that's it.  Once the PS3 thinks what you're running is legitimate, it's done.  This isn't a per game thing they can change on a whim or even through a lot of work, it's just something they can't change.  Changing means screwing everyone who bought a game before 2011 and they just can't do that.

So one more time hopefully as clear as possible:

  • If the old key works for anything, it works for everything.  There's no locking out the old key because every official app needs to work. 
  • You can't have multiple keys, it just doesn't work.  That's like saying there's more than one solution for x - 4 = 8.  There's only one solution for x there.  You can change the equation to 4x = 8 but then the previous value of x is completely wrong in every way possible.
  • Even if your idea did work, all they need to do is tell the PS3 you're playing Metal Gear Solid 4 when you're actually playing Super Awesome PS3 Game Launcher that just launched Killzone 3.  The PS3 won't care because you have a valid digital signature for a game before the new key was introduced.

i wasn't messing,just my idea is kind of crazy and very tough to implement.

 

now one time i will explain myself:

 

the old games that will be playable on all ps3's

now someone buys a new game(updates firmware as required through game) or update firmware from internet,sony could add an additional way or decrytion while keeping the old decrytion method

 

the older decryption method which will work no matter what,but for new games a different decryption method is there that was put in by the firmware update.the new decrption method would need to be totally different from the current way of verifying whether an app is legit or not

 

although the hackers have control over the PS3's,they will need to decrypt the new way off veryify which will eventually be done but it will take some time so atleast there will be a gap where the exploit has been waded off.


Again, that's not the way you do it dude... if it was that easy Sony would already be doing it and the hackers mentioned it and trying a way around it.

This is a matter for an entire encryption team of mathematicians, programmers etc., not some random dudes over a forum to solve with a bit of brainstorming.



 

 

 

 

 

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haxxiy said:

This is a matter for an entire encryption team of mathematicians, programmers etc., not some random dudes over a forum to solve with a bit of brainstorming.


In other words, Sony master key is out in the public. It doesn't matter how many new keys they make, the master key will still open it up.



haxxiy said:
snakenobi said:
twesterm said:
snakenobi said:
twesterm said:
 

I think you're missing what I'm saying-- as long as the old key works for anything, it will always work for whatever homebrew they make. 

It doesn't matter if they suddenly started using a new key, the old key will always work.  The only way to get rid of that old key is to completely revoke for everything.

i know but the old key once changed will not

the old key can be locked on the newer stuff

 

the old stuff will still work

 

the new stuff's decrytion would e diffferent

 

the hackers could still hack it but it will take some time


You're either messing with me or you're just completely incapable of grasping the concept.  Either way I'm saying it one more time and I'm done with you--

If the old key works for anything they always have a way in.  No matter how many new keys they make, it will affect them in now way at all.  The old key would still work and would continue to work unless they revoked it and made everything before that obselete.

The key has to do with convincing the PS3 that your app is legitimate, that's it.  Once the PS3 thinks what you're running is legitimate, it's done.  This isn't a per game thing they can change on a whim or even through a lot of work, it's just something they can't change.  Changing means screwing everyone who bought a game before 2011 and they just can't do that.

So one more time hopefully as clear as possible:

  • If the old key works for anything, it works for everything.  There's no locking out the old key because every official app needs to work. 
  • You can't have multiple keys, it just doesn't work.  That's like saying there's more than one solution for x - 4 = 8.  There's only one solution for x there.  You can change the equation to 4x = 8 but then the previous value of x is completely wrong in every way possible.
  • Even if your idea did work, all they need to do is tell the PS3 you're playing Metal Gear Solid 4 when you're actually playing Super Awesome PS3 Game Launcher that just launched Killzone 3.  The PS3 won't care because you have a valid digital signature for a game before the new key was introduced.

i wasn't messing,just my idea is kind of crazy and very tough to implement.

 

now one time i will explain myself:

 

the old games that will be playable on all ps3's

now someone buys a new game(updates firmware as required through game) or update firmware from internet,sony could add an additional way or decrytion while keeping the old decrytion method

 

the older decryption method which will work no matter what,but for new games a different decryption method is there that was put in by the firmware update.the new decrption method would need to be totally different from the current way of verifying whether an app is legit or not

 

although the hackers have control over the PS3's,they will need to decrypt the new way off veryify which will eventually be done but it will take some time so atleast there will be a gap where the exploit has been waded off.


Again, that's not the way you do it dude... if it was that easy Sony would already be doing it and the hackers mentioned it and trying a way around it.

This is a matter for an entire encryption team of mathematicians, programmers etc., not some random dudes over a forum to solve with a bit of brainstorming.

oh an ecryption team that don't understand the meaning of random,don't try to be "oh leave it to the pro's"

 

and to say if it was that easy sony would already be doing it,do you even know what you are saying or just being arrogant

 

just because they have an idea doesn't mean can already do it,it takes time to implement and alot of time.



If there is a solution for this (and i don't think there is one), it would cost Sony a lot more than what they're losing with piracy (which won't be as much as people think, this won't be another PSP, and it will create less piracy than with PS2, besides, Sony now is making profit per console)...

My suggestion is to let this one go, if they have a PSN banning method, use it, and try to use dual-layer BDs, just to make it itchier to some people (we know that people that are really into piracy will do anything, but some people get discouraged with anything, i know friends that have blu-ray burners and they don't use them because "BD-Rs are expensive/25 GB is too much/my HDD will fill fast if i put those ISOs/etc.")



The Anarchyz said:

If there is a solution for this (and i don't think there is one), it would cost Sony a lot more than what they're losing with piracy (which won't be as much as people think, this won't be another PSP, and it will create less piracy than with PS2, besides, Sony now is making profit per console)...

My suggestion is to let this one go, if they have a PSN banning method, use it, and try to use dual-layer BDs, just to make it itchier to some people (we know that people that are really into piracy will do anything, but some people get discouraged with anything, i know friends that have blu-ray burners and they don't use them because "BD-Rs are expensive/25 GB is too much/my HDD will fill fast if i put those ISOs/etc.")

Yeah, thIs isnt necessariy a terrible thing, people will still buy software in the west, but in poorer countries where software is very expensive its wont make much difference imo. however the only thing i cant think is banning PSN accounts, but unlike the 360, people can just make new accounts, but Microsofts console meant that banned users would have to buy new consoles if they used modded consoles. so thats more effective.

dual-layer BR are another good soution, but i have no idea how Sony could ban PSN users anyway tbh, how could you tell whos doing what.



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snakenobi said:

i wasn't messing,just my idea is kind of crazy and very tough to implement.

 

now one time i will explain myself:

 

the old games that will be playable on all ps3's

now someone buys a new game(updates firmware as required through game) or update firmware from internet,sony could add an additional way or decrytion while keeping the old decrytion method

 

the older decryption method which will work no matter what,but for new games a different decryption method is there that was put in by the firmware update.the new decrption method would need to be totally different from the current way of verifying whether an app is legit or not

 

although the hackers have control over the PS3's,they will need to decrypt the new way off veryify which will eventually be done but it will take some time so atleast there will be a gap where the exploit has been waded off.


It's not a crazy idea that's tough to implement it's simply a stupid idea.  I'm not trying to call you stupid by saying it's a stupid idea, I'm saying it's stupid because that just does not work.  You can't have multiple master keys, it does not work like that.  I don't know any other way to tell you that other than what I and others have already said.



twesterm said:
snakenobi said:

i wasn't messing,just my idea is kind of crazy and very tough to implement.

 

now one time i will explain myself:

 

the old games that will be playable on all ps3's

now someone buys a new game(updates firmware as required through game) or update firmware from internet,sony could add an additional way or decrytion while keeping the old decrytion method

 

the older decryption method which will work no matter what,but for new games a different decryption method is there that was put in by the firmware update.the new decrption method would need to be totally different from the current way of verifying whether an app is legit or not

 

although the hackers have control over the PS3's,they will need to decrypt the new way off veryify which will eventually be done but it will take some time so atleast there will be a gap where the exploit has been waded off.


It's not a crazy idea that's tough to implement it's simply a stupid idea.  I'm not trying to call you stupid by saying it's a stupid idea, I'm saying it's stupid because that just does not work.  You can't have multiple master keys, it does not work like that.  I don't know any other way to tell you that other than what I and others have already said.

relax

 

lets see what sony does abt it,BBC jst did a report on it too