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Forums - Gaming - Microsoft vs Valve - On Treatment of Indie Devs

Mr Puggsly on 02 January 2011
Torillian said:
Mr Puggsly said:
disolitude said:

I don't know what this clown is talking about... Super Meat Boy was like promoted all over xbox live and was a 33% off item on launch day. ITs a great game and all but it came out after summer of arcade...don't know what they were expecting.

Maybe putting it on the dashboard for like weeks wasn't enough.

Perhaps they were expecting some of that Halo and Kinect marketing.

It also sold better than anticipated and they are still bitching.


They are "bitching" that it was hard to get MS to do all the promotions that they promised, showing that those promotions eventually happenned does not counter what he's saying and is really only evidence that the Super Meat Boy guys kept at it.  They aren't whining that they shoulda gotten more, but that it shouldn't be that difficult to get what they were promised.

Regardless, it got done and the game did well.

Maybe Valve catered to them more. But they should be a little more thankful MS gave them a big venue to market their game. They needed MS more than MS needed them. Clearly Nintendo and Sony weren't willing to do the same. That's just my opinoin.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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Torillian on 02 January 2011
Mr Puggsly said:
Torillian said:
Mr Puggsly said:
disolitude said:

I don't know what this clown is talking about... Super Meat Boy was like promoted all over xbox live and was a 33% off item on launch day. ITs a great game and all but it came out after summer of arcade...don't know what they were expecting.

Maybe putting it on the dashboard for like weeks wasn't enough.

Perhaps they were expecting some of that Halo and Kinect marketing.

It also sold better than anticipated and they are still bitching.


They are "bitching" that it was hard to get MS to do all the promotions that they promised, showing that those promotions eventually happenned does not counter what he's saying and is really only evidence that the Super Meat Boy guys kept at it.  They aren't whining that they shoulda gotten more, but that it shouldn't be that difficult to get what they were promised.

Regardless, it got done and the game did well.

Maybe Valve catered to them more. But they should be a little more thankful MS gave them a big venue to market their game. Clearly Nintendo and Sony weren't willing to do the same. That's just my opinoin.

What I've read has lead me to believe that Sony didn't respond as quickly as MS and never fully denied the game.  Whether or not Sony would've been willing to give the game a big venue had MS not locked it in for exclusivity is not clear.



...

shio on 02 January 2011
Mr Puggsly said:
Torillian said:
Mr Puggsly said:
disolitude said:

I don't know what this clown is talking about... Super Meat Boy was like promoted all over xbox live and was a 33% off item on launch day. ITs a great game and all but it came out after summer of arcade...don't know what they were expecting.

Maybe putting it on the dashboard for like weeks wasn't enough.

Perhaps they were expecting some of that Halo and Kinect marketing.

It also sold better than anticipated and they are still bitching.


They are "bitching" that it was hard to get MS to do all the promotions that they promised, showing that those promotions eventually happenned does not counter what he's saying and is really only evidence that the Super Meat Boy guys kept at it.  They aren't whining that they shoulda gotten more, but that it shouldn't be that difficult to get what they were promised.

Regardless, it got done and the game did well.

Maybe Valve catered to them more. But they should be a little more thankful MS gave them a big venue to market their game. They needed MS more than MS needed them. Clearly Nintendo and Sony weren't willing to do the same. That's just my opinoin.

It got done because they fought hard to get it . If they hadn't Microsoft wouldn't have lifted a finger to keep it's promises.



http://i48.tinypic.com/120qaon.jpg
Mr Puggsly on 02 January 2011
Torillian said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Regardless, it got done and the game did well.

Maybe Valve catered to them more. But they should be a little more thankful MS gave them a big venue to market their game. Clearly Nintendo and Sony weren't willing to do the same. That's just my opinoin.

What I've read has lead me to believe that Sony didn't respond as quickly as MS and never fully denied the game.  Whether or not Sony would've been willing to give the game a big venue had MS not locked it in for exclusivity is not clear.

Well that's just speculating.

What actually happened is MS jumped on it and apparently gave them an offer that was good enough for exclusivity.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

disolitude on 02 January 2011
shio said:

It got done because they fought hard to get it . If they hadn't Microsoft wouldn't have lifted a finger to keep it's promises.


Tell us more Shio...obviously you were there and know everything about this scenario and how it went down...



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Mr Puggsly on 02 January 2011
shio said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Torillian said:
Mr Puggsly said:
disolitude said:

I don't know what this clown is talking about... Super Meat Boy was like promoted all over xbox live and was a 33% off item on launch day. ITs a great game and all but it came out after summer of arcade...don't know what they were expecting.

Maybe putting it on the dashboard for like weeks wasn't enough.

Perhaps they were expecting some of that Halo and Kinect marketing.

It also sold better than anticipated and they are still bitching.


They are "bitching" that it was hard to get MS to do all the promotions that they promised, showing that those promotions eventually happenned does not counter what he's saying and is really only evidence that the Super Meat Boy guys kept at it.  They aren't whining that they shoulda gotten more, but that it shouldn't be that difficult to get what they were promised.

Regardless, it got done and the game did well.

Maybe Valve catered to them more. But they should be a little more thankful MS gave them a big venue to market their game. They needed MS more than MS needed them. Clearly Nintendo and Sony weren't willing to do the same. That's just my opinoin.

It got done because they fought hard to get it . If they hadn't Microsoft wouldn't have lifted a finger to keep it's promises.

Fought hard? We don't know what they actually did. Made a few calls?

Its not like Team Meat had to take them to court.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

shio on 03 January 2011
Mr Puggsly said:
shio said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Torillian said:
Mr Puggsly said:
disolitude said:

I don't know what this clown is talking about... Super Meat Boy was like promoted all over xbox live and was a 33% off item on launch day. ITs a great game and all but it came out after summer of arcade...don't know what they were expecting.

Maybe putting it on the dashboard for like weeks wasn't enough.

Perhaps they were expecting some of that Halo and Kinect marketing.

It also sold better than anticipated and they are still bitching.


They are "bitching" that it was hard to get MS to do all the promotions that they promised, showing that those promotions eventually happenned does not counter what he's saying and is really only evidence that the Super Meat Boy guys kept at it.  They aren't whining that they shoulda gotten more, but that it shouldn't be that difficult to get what they were promised.

Regardless, it got done and the game did well.

Maybe Valve catered to them more. But they should be a little more thankful MS gave them a big venue to market their game. They needed MS more than MS needed them. Clearly Nintendo and Sony weren't willing to do the same. That's just my opinoin.

It got done because they fought hard to get it . If they hadn't Microsoft wouldn't have lifted a finger to keep it's promises.

Fought hard? We don't know what they actually did. Made a few calls?

Its not like Team Meat had to take them to court.

I'm more willing to assume it's true than not, because Team Meat definitely aren't the first indie developers to criticise Microsoft.



http://i48.tinypic.com/120qaon.jpg
Mr Puggsly on 03 January 2011
shio said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Fought hard? We don't know what they actually did. Made a few calls?

Its not like Team Meat had to take them to court.

I'm more willing to assume it's true than not, because Team Meat definitely aren't the first indie developers to criticise Microsoft.

Big deal.

Team Meat hasn't exactly proven themselves and MS doesn't need them. So don't expect MS to cater to them. That's the way things go sometimes.

They should just be happy MS has helped them financially.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

ssj12 on 03 January 2011
Mr Puggsly said:
shio said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Fought hard? We don't know what they actually did. Made a few calls?

Its not like Team Meat had to take them to court.

I'm more willing to assume it's true than not, because Team Meat definitely aren't the first indie developers to criticise Microsoft.

Big deal.

Team Meat hasn't exactly proven themselves and MS doesn't need them. So don't expect MS to cater to them. That's the way things go sometimes.

They should just be happy MS has helped them financially.

So what your saying is MS should say "F*ck all indie devs" because they don't need them even though they promise a ton of stuff with the XNA project?

When a developer purchases the XNA they have a contractual agreement with Microsoft that if they are chosen to be on XBLA they will get advertising and other benefits. Since many developers have had issues with this it proves that Microsoft can't even do business legally without actually having to get into fights with the developers over agreed benefits granted by Microsoft.



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Mr Puggsly on 03 January 2011
ssj12 said:

So what your saying is MS should say "F*ck all indie devs" because they don't need them even though they promise a ton of stuff with the XNA project?

When a developer purchases the XNA they have a contractual agreement with Microsoft that if they are chosen to be on XBLA they will get advertising and other benefits. Since many developers have had issues with this it proves that Microsoft can't even do business legally without actually having to get into fights with the developers over agreed benefits granted by Microsoft.

Right, they got what they were promised.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)