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Forums - Nintendo - Dead Space iOs better tan Wii version?

LordTheNightKnight said:

BTW, it could just be blanket stupidity on developer's parts. Werekitten seems to like cherry picking facts to make the anti Wii stance viable.

And if you think they can't just be dumb in massive numbers, look at the US auto industry in the 70s and 80s versus Japan. You can see the same stupidity by companies there as in here.

Hanlon'z Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I'm not cherry picking facts, as I didn't comment specific facts at all actually. I merely offered a different point of view on the issue of platform choice by devs. Having to consider the intellectual investment and its future returns is something that I have to go through all the time when I'm offered to work on a platform I have limited experience with, and the same is true of all the developers among my co-workers and friends.

I'm not saying that every time such an evaluation is made the best decision is taken, whatever way you'll use to judge what is best: maybe most of those who didn't choose to work on Wii development will come to regret their choice because of the economic, psychologic, formative outcome. Still, my point was to underline that such evaluation takes place, and that some rational argumentation exists to support the choices of - say - porting some infrastructure and working on Unreal engine or ID's tech 5 on iOS devices on one extreme and the 360/PS3/PC on the other.

You can continue to tag everything you dissent with as malice or stupidity, if you want. I simply highly doubt that judgmental, sentimental assessment is really useful to understand what goes on.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

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Mummelmann said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

BTW, it could just be blanket stupidity on developer's parts. Werekitten seems to like cherry picking facts to make the anti Wii stance viable.

And if you think they can't just be dumb in massive numbers, look at the US auto industry in the 70s and 80s versus Japan. You can see the same stupidity by companies there as in here.

Hanlon'z Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


So Nintendo have no fault at all in their relationship with 3rd parties? Its always somebody else's fault, isn't it. Even the marvelous Malstrom admits that Nintendo makes mistakes, do you seriously not see the incredible naivety in assuming a huge company to always be infallible?

Of course Nintendo are not faultless as far as 3rd parties, and when looking at 3rd party attitude in general, I agree with several (though not all) of your arguments and some of werekitten's, but this is not a general "why 3rd parties neglect the Wii" thread, this is a "why EA messes up 99% of its games on the Wii" thread, and in this case imo neither your nor werekitten's arguments explain well why what we see is happening. EA is not ignoring the Wii, it is mishandling all of its efforts on the Wii in a wide variety of ways as already previously detailed in this thread by saviorx (and there are things he didn't mention, e.g. have you actually seen the cover art for "Dead Space Extraction"? It's as though someone wanted to make extra sure no one would dare buy the game onm a whim if they saw it in the store )



Currently Playing: Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor Overclocked, Professor Layton and the Curious Village

Anticipating: Xenoblade, The Last Story, Mario Kart 7, Rayman Origins, Zelda SS, Crush3D, Tales of the Abyss 3DS, MGS:Snake Eater 3DS, RE:Revelations, Time Travellers, Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney, Luigi's Mansion 2, MH TriG, DQ Monsters, Heroes of Ruin

WereKitten said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

BTW, it could just be blanket stupidity on developer's parts. Werekitten seems to like cherry picking facts to make the anti Wii stance viable.

And if you think they can't just be dumb in massive numbers, look at the US auto industry in the 70s and 80s versus Japan. You can see the same stupidity by companies there as in here.

Hanlon'z Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I'm not cherry picking facts, as I didn't comment specific facts at all actually. I merely offered a different point of view on the issue of platform choice by devs. Having to consider the intellectual investment and its future returns is something that I have to go through all the time when I'm offered to work on a platform I have limited experience with, and the same is true of all the developers among my co-workers and friends.

I'm not saying that every time such an evaluation is made the best decision is taken, whatever way you'll use to judge what is best: maybe most of those who didn't choose to work on Wii development will come to regret their choice because of the economic, psychologic, formative outcome. Still, my point was to underline that such evaluation takes place, and that some rational argumentation exists to support the choices of - say - porting some infrastructure and working on Unreal engine or ID's tech 5 on iOS devices on one extreme and the 360/PS3/PC on the other.

You can continue to tag everything you dissent with as malice or stupidity, if you want. I simply highly doubt that judgmental, sentimental assessment is really useful to understand what goes on.

I agree with your earlier posting and based on what other developers have said to me privately it does fall into line with a lot of other peoples thinking in the industry. The common argument is that 'its obvious, why aren't they doing it' which in my opinion doesn't quite cut it when the reverse of that argument is the very valid 'if it was so obvious from their perspective they would have done it already'. Now im obviously not going to discount some stupidity, experimentation or malice but the whole truth cannot be constructed from those explanations.

By the way, do you live within 1.5 miles of your mother? I hear thats the Italian mother to son distance average.

 

 





Tease.

oniyide said:

@Mr. Khan  i think the Soul Calibur thing was a little something done on the side by Sony since Kratos is in it and that is a SOny character. Ninty consoles have not been known for fighting games anyway, not since SNES days

@lordtheknight If EA havent done it by now, they are not going to do it. These companies dont have a infinite amount of dev teams, they are going to put their best teams on the PS360/PC thats how they have been doing and I dont think its going to change. Im not trying to make it excuses and it sucks if your a Wii only owner but thats the way it is, nothing any of us can do will change that


When did I indicate it was likely? I expect them to go bankrupt from their mismanagement. ALL I did was clarify what was ticking us off about them, when  you claimed we just wanted to play a game.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

i enjoyed extraction more than the original dead space. though that might be the case because i only played the xbox version, and dual analogue controls suck for shooters. i can't understand the hate for extraction, i thought it was well made. togther with overkill it's the best lightgun shooter on the wii.

oh and on topic: the controls for this look terrible. i don't care if the graphics look good for a portable device or not. pass.

and on a sidenote: "modern" shooters are so scripted and linear... they might also be on rails. that doesn't really change the (single player) experience anyway.



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oniyide said:

@Savior x    Killer Instinct wasnt all that, MK trilogy multiplat, wrestling games are sports games  Soul Calibur 2 multiplat  Smash Bros not a serious figther.  Lets get real here, where are the Street Fighters?? If your console has no street fighter then most serious fighting game fans are not going to take it seriously. PSP has a street fighter, freaking gameboy had a street fighter. 

Oh yeah Wii has Tvs. C thats start.  My point is that NInty fighting offerings PALE in comparision to the competition. its been like that since N64

That's hardly good reasoning for continuing to neglect Nintendo consoles for fighters though, particularly for something like Soulcalibur, which moved a stupid amount of copies with SC2 on GameCube.  A Wii SC4/BD with Link probably would've ended up the best selling game in the entire series.

I'd also argue that any fighter that can attract a thriving tournament scene can safely be called "serious".  Just because something doesn't fall into the classic SF or VF molds, doesn't mean it's not "serious".



I know some people that works with EA, and the company gave up on Nintendo like 2 years ago. They had some good assets for some of their sports games (Madden, Fifa, etc) because they produced those games for the previous generation so those same games this generation are usually good and they spend very little making the game better every year, but they didn't had a good expertise developing other genres on the gamecube.

When this gen was starting they bet the house on the PS3 (and in the Xbox360 in some way), they place their best teams to work on games for those consoles, when they saw that the Wii was the clear winner, it was too late for them.

Instead of putting some of the good teams to work on the Wii they always hire some small company to handle the Wii version of the games (like it happened with this year Need for Speed), when they hire good companies (like Eurocom for Dead Space the same people in charge of the great Goldeneye) they make design mistakes like changing the genre of the game, create a horrible boxart, not advertise the game, or charge 50 dollars in a genre that people perceives as low on value.

They started this generation trying to diversify their portfolio but they did it for the HD consoles, now they have some good games to sell, but they don't have the assets to publish those games for the Wii, and are not willing to spend the money required to create them.



oniyide said:

@Savior x    Killer Instinct wasnt all that, MK trilogy multiplat, wrestling games are sports games  Soul Calibur 2 multiplat  Smash Bros not a serious figther.  Lets get real here, where are the Street Fighters?? If your console has no street fighter then most serious fighting game fans are not going to take it seriously. PSP has a street fighter, freaking gameboy had a street fighter. 

Oh yeah Wii has Tvs. C thats start.  My point is that NInty fighting offerings PALE in comparision to the competition. its been like that since N64


Man this post is a real joke, there's really not a bigger nor more serious scene out there than there is for the Smash Bros series, there are hosted money tournaments all the damn time no matter what state you live in, hell there's even a google earth mod to give you player locations (that register) and tournament locations with dates.

Knocking a console cause of your fighter taste is just ridiculous, or counting against it cause it's a multiplat... seriously?  I can't name a single exclusive fighter for the PS3 I could have named Battle Fantasia for the 360... until... it went to PSN for download... 

This is what I get from this logic, Wii doesn't have a multiplat of Street Fighter IV = bad, GC that had some of the best selling versions of multiplats = bad, the only way to logically have good fighters/fighting scene on your console is to have "serious" exclusives and serious is defined by you... This logic simply does not work. 



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

RolStoppable said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
oniyide said:

@Savior x    Killer Instinct wasnt all that, MK trilogy multiplat, wrestling games are sports games  Soul Calibur 2 multiplat  Smash Bros not a serious figther.  Lets get real here, where are the Street Fighters?? If your console has no street fighter then most serious fighting game fans are not going to take it seriously. PSP has a street fighter, freaking gameboy had a street fighter. 

Oh yeah Wii has Tvs. C thats start.  My point is that NInty fighting offerings PALE in comparision to the competition. its been like that since N64

Man this post is a real joke, there's really not a bigger nor more serious scene out there than there is for the Smash Bros series, there are hosted money tournaments all the damn time no matter what state you live in, hell there's even a google earth mod to give you player locations (that register) and tournament locations with dates.

Knocking a console cause of your fighter taste is just ridiculous, or counting against it cause it's a multiplat... seriously?  I can't name a single exclusive fighter for the PS3 I could have named Battle Fantasia for the 360... until... it went to PSN for download... 

This is what I get from this logic, Wii doesn't have a multiplat of Street Fighter IV = bad, GC that had some of the best selling versions of multiplats = bad, the only way to logically have good fighters/fighting scene on your console is to have "serious" exclusives and serious is defined by you... This logic simply does not work. 

Not to mention that the Nintendo 64 had Dual Heroes.


Worst... fighter... ever...



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

flagstaad said:

I know some people that works with EA, and the company gave up on Nintendo like 2 years ago. They had some good assets for some of their sports games (Madden, Fifa, etc) because they produced those games for the previous generation so those same games this generation are usually good and they spend very little making the game better every year, but they didn't had a good expertise developing other genres on the gamecube.

When this gen was starting they bet the house on the PS3 (and in the Xbox360 in some way), they place their best teams to work on games for those consoles, when they saw that the Wii was the clear winner, it was too late for them.

Instead of putting some of the good teams to work on the Wii they always hire some small company to handle the Wii version of the games (like it happened with this year Need for Speed), when they hire good companies (like Eurocom for Dead Space the same people in charge of the great Goldeneye) they make design mistakes like changing the genre of the game, create a horrible boxart, not advertise the game, or charge 50 dollars in a genre that people perceives as low on value.

They started this generation trying to diversify their portfolio but they did it for the HD consoles, now they have some good games to sell, but they don't have the assets to publish those games for the Wii, and are not willing to spend the money required to create them.


Again, reminds me of US car companies in the 70s and 80s. They felt it was better not to try the new kinds of cars, or just do slapdash jobs. The results showed why that was a piss poor solution.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs