... i guess.

Yeah, that pretty much does it. 

And in a game with no cop, there's no way noname would do that do us...

I went back in the thread to see when nen was dropping his doc hints and it looks to me like he was doing it AFTER we found out the whole mason list.  At least with the stronger hint, I don't know where Wonk dug up his example from but assuming a game has a cop and doc is extremely natural if obviously not always correct. 

I can see nen pulling a fake doc claim after finding out there was a huge mason group and therefore probably no cop and possibly no doctor.  Especially if I am remembering right that he would have had time to talk it over with his team and they could agree he could take the risk.  Especially if hatmoza came up with the idea and nen is just the one who volunteered, hamoza loves to run those gambles IMO. 

What do you think of this Linkz?  Any of your faith in nen shaken?  How about you, radish? 

Oh I think I need to

Unvote Linkz

And that is totally not a bribe.  I'm not sure you're innocent, but I no longer prefer you over him. 

Ah but if he IS the doc then Linkz was lying about all those "fake attacks" midgame, and instead of dismayed to come back to find nen had been forced to claim he was only dismayed to see nen caved to pressure and claimed instead of trying to tough it out and failing. 

But that ... doesn't ring as true to me as the nen fakeclaim does.  Right now, anyway.  When I wake up I'll see if I feel the same way. 

Sorry for the million posts guys. 

Ok now your reaching, TOS gave us the mason list clearly

I swear every time i start believing you..you go on and say something like this.

Your not making much sense now....

Did you finally crack ? did you throw logic out of the window ?

Your saying there is no doctor in game with no cop. do you actually believe that ?

and last night i didnt kill on of you.......because ?

Not to mention i was the one who first  suggested there is no cop right after the mason list came out and if i wanted to

fake role claim "a cop" would have been safer claim AND could have giving me the power to control day lynches 

for at least for a while. 

Now it looks to me now that you losing against Linkz and trying to go after the smaller fish

Vote: Final-Fan

I should've asked you to rank radish lynch or nen lynch instead of yourself, but what I was really getting at was your preference between no lynch and lynching me. You see if you really felt that way you could vote No Lynch and if both nen and radish voted for me then I'd be forced to switch from voting you to voting No Lynch as well. It'd require clarification from @noname, but I assume that tie would result in no lynch occurring after all.

For the 50% thing, I see your point but I've already put the likelyness of me winning if I was mafia and pushed for a mislynch of you at a mere 25%. At the very least I think my odds if I was mafia, would be 33% if a night kill reduced the town to yourself, myself, and either nen or radish. However, I said this with j0 and I'm only saying it again as a warning for future rounds as to how unpredictable I might really be, if everything else played out the same and I replaced the last mafia then I would've killed you last night. I probably would've pushed for different night kills along the way, but that changes things far too much to even discuss. If you are really a townie you have no reason to believe it until after I flip, and if you're scum then you know it's true but can't admit it until after I flip either. I just wanted to put it out there now instead of post-game.

If nen is really mafia and not you, then he's doing an incredibly great job. It's possible he's going to continue putting up the townie act until radish finally votes, but I just don't see radish needing much convincing to vote for one of us. Of course now that you've unvoted me, mafia-nen can't simply follow radish's vote for an assured win so we'll have to see what happens. Still I look at last night and wonder why mafia-nen would choose a no kill, and then thought "that no lynch was the only option." Now I wish I had waited to see what nen and radish wanted to do for the day before I stated my plan, because that could've been a fake thought. Occam's Razor comes into play and rather than think the extremely complicated explanation to be true, I find the doc claim to be far more likely.

I completely agree with you on radish. Until he was confirmed mason by Truck I was ready to push for his lynch based on his swift defense of MG and backing up MG's vote on scottie. Just about every single post of his I find very shady. Even http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3891927, which was finally a nice change of pace from the usual minimal content posts, feels riddled with things I could pick apart if he were a possible suspect. Yet as with nen, I can't think of any possible reason for radish to choose not to kill last night.

Which brings me back to you. You're doing quite an impressive job at planting the seed of doubt that maybe you really are a townie and I need to consider my suspicions of the others better, but I don't buy it.

Just as a note, I think a mafia mason fits fine in certain set-ups. However, in this one without a cop it'd just make the scumteam horribly overpowered. First it allows one of them to be "confirmed" townie with the only way to test that being a lynch, and it seems crazy to suggest lynching a "confirmed" townie so the odds are extremely slim that such a test would occur. Second, I've never been a mason but chances are they discuss whether or not they have additional powers on top of the obvious mason role. Knowing Truck, IMU/dtewi/Kantor, and Sol/nord were really just vanilla and furthermore could be influenced on the mason board means there's no reason to kill them off. It'd essentially put the start at 12 townies to 5 scum.

I pointed out all of nen's mention of the doc in http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3884907.

The first two links both occur before Truck gave his list which later confirmed radish as a townie:
"nen's first mention of a doc doesn't flat out say there is one though.
nen says there may not be a cop but never once has put any doubt on there being a doc."

And then before we went to night:
"nen was first to state definitively that the doc is still alive."

So unless they did some outside of thread talking during the day, there wasn't any time to discuss it. That's a mighty strong softclaim.

I said it two posts ago, but if I were mafia I'd have pushed for nen's death night three instead of Truck. Softclaimed power, especially a doc should be taken out first and then confirmed townies can be picked off at will. I do realize this is exactly like hatmoza saying if he were mafia then nord would've died night one, but the truth of my words will be evident soon enough. Unless of course you're right and nen has fakeclaimed, but then if I were mafia also I would know that wouldn't I?

Not to defend FF, but it's not unreasonable to think some round would be missing both a doctor and cop. Without a cop, the doc is a far less powerful role for town to the point that it's almost insignificant, almost. I was a bit surprised that people seemed shocked that there weren't any saves until most likely last night, since it's pretty much luck to guess who the mafia are going to target unless there's claimed town power.