Quite so. Columbus was a prophet confirmed! Amazing!

Fact fail in a post about telling others to check their facts? I love it.

This is why I have decided to stay out of debates. Their is no basis of fact that proves you or me right. The only thing that will happen is I will through facts around which you will say are false or based on misconseptions. Then you will through facts back at me which I will either use to support God's existance or again say come from bias. This will continue untill I have about 8 people attacking me and trying to ruin my credability. Before finally I will leave the thread pissed off just to repeate the situation next time.

I could go all into Micro Evolution and how it proves God exists I could start using personal experiances and proofs of miracles etc...etc... But it would just be a waste of time because you and half the other athiests only listen to facts and theories that agree with your own theology. Look at all the prominent scientists that get fired every day just because they decide God exists.

As for you being under attack and you not actually attacking me. Let me put this into perspective for you. You are not being under attack. You say religion is being forced on you, look at it from a Christian's perspective. Without believe in God you go to hell" now if you knew how to save someone from eternally damnation would you not try at every chance you got? If you say no, you'd just let everyone go to hell. Well then your an asshole.

As for me, I go everywhere and I get attacked because I'm Christian. You claim to not be attacking me you say your just stating facts. Why because your insinuating I don't know these facts and are their for uneducated. You treat me as if I can't comprehend reality that I blindly follow my faith. Now how is that not hostile?

You are attacking me and my faith by suggesting facts prove me wrong. Essentially your calling me stupid , ignorant or both.

So will I continue to debate with you? No because its stupid as you won't listen to my facts or my theories. You'll just write them off while using your own theories and facts which I may even agree with some things but your not going to change my belief.

In the end your posts and mine will only lead to further anti-religious sentiments in you and anti-athiest sentiments in me!

LOL, Now thats funny.

So fear and miracle's, OK. GOT you.

Exactly the kind of reasoning that causes me to avoid such topics. Rather then responding maturely you resort to saying I and other religious groups use fear and miracles. Rather then pointing out you have no facts that disprove Gods existance just like I have none that prove it.

Geez this is stupid. You couldn't even reply without trying to make me look like a loony. I don't try to make you look like a nut case for believing were decendants of some 1/3rd complete fossil named lucy or neanderthals that we are less genetically incomon then pigs.

I could go on about how their are hundreds of evolution theories including many false ones even by the great Darwin. I could begin saying how I am an evolutionist I believe in Micro Evolution, Natural Selection and the strongest survive. But you know what you'll just counter with some bull shit trying to prove the big bang theory or some other theory like Macro evolution.

With no scientific facts to back either of us , its pointless. But I bet you'll reply to this yet again and likely take another pot shot at my religious beliefs or try to cliche me up. Another insult like allowing fear to control me. I could start talking about your family issues based on your past post. Then I would be lowering to your level.

But I won't so please don't qoute me or comment on my reply. I don't care to get in another argument with yet another smart ass athiest who think's he's more intelligent then me.

I'm 100% certain there is no afterlife or prime mover in the universe.

The burden of proof is on the people who think there are invisible forces at work that control everything, gave us the power of reason but don't want us to use it, intentionally hide from us, love us, want us to believe in them, and punish us if we don't, while knowing that logically we shouldn't.

Agnosticism is the belief that it is impossible to know if a God exists or not. It does not define whether you actually do believe one exists.

For example, I am an atheist as I do not believe that God exists and at the same time an agnostic because I believe it impossible to prove one way or the other.

Atheism itself is merely the lack of a belief in God, it does not require the active disbelief.

Edit: Also the evidence against young earth creationism is so heavy in so many fields that it is impossible to claim any belief in it based on science. Astronomy, physics, geology, biology, they all massively and blatantly contradict the idea of a 7000-10000 year old universe.

As terms go, atheisim is the closest to describing me. Without god -- that's what the term means at its root. Yup, that's me. I don't need a giant, ineffable crutch for my life. I don't need someone to simplify things I don't understand. I live and abide by my own decisions and morality, and I make, as much as I can, my own choices; and while my ethical stances may marry closely with one religious cult or another, they are only informed by, not dictated, by others. I adapt and learn. I need no god.

Even if a god (or gods) was real, I would almost certainly deny it (or them). Why should I worship anything? For what purpose should I abase myself before any other creature, be it divine or mundane? Why should it care what I do or do not do? Why should I relinquish my moral position to another entity? I'd be as well to worship a hyper-intelligent alien with advanced technology (indeed, perhaps that's all religion is -- there is as much proof for that as there is anything) -- and I certainly wouldn't do that either. Not unless forced or coerced. Or, perhaps, tricked. I'd rather not be forced or tricked, and both are tactics used by many religions. Screw that, and screw any god that thinks it has a right to control me. My parents don't have any right to that, so I don't see why any god should over them, and my parents certainly had a more direct hand in my creation.

I've read too broadly and deeply on the subject to be taken in by religion, and that's a shame, as almost all good community-based groups involve religion to some degree, and I make a poor hypocrite. I like much of the trappings of religion (the good bits), I just don't like the core beliefs. I simply can't believe them. They strike me, in general, as absolute nonsense. What some people freely believe truly stuns me. Further, the level of ignorance regarding religion and its foundations also stuns me, especially from folk that claim they 'believe', without any real idea of what they claim to believe. But, I suppose, each to their own -- some people prefer ignorance to learning, and I can understand why. It's easy. It's comforting. The majority of religious texts, when studied for what they are and where they come from, do not bare up terribly well. I've read them. Most, if not all. And I've read the context of their creations. It makes for ugly reading, in the most part, if you happen to ascribe to the religion at hand. Still, ignorance, as hinted, brings a certain bliss, much like religion, and it can be far easier to blindly accept and hope rather than ask difficult, seemingly unanswerable questions.

Indeed, I envy people who can blindly have faith. Who can believe in heaven or similar. Who can support their grief or inner thoughts or actions with a solid framework of comforting theories. I really envy that. I have a far bleaker, emptier perspective. No less filled with wonder, emotion, or joy, but certainly devoid of other things, such as certainty itself.

Ok so im a dumbarse. I meant to say, Charles Darwin was a staunch Christian, Columbus was probably an atheist for all I know. And yes I know Charles Darwin wrote the book on the origin of the species, or rather he dictated it to someone to write it. It was his theory with someone elses spin and they just ran with it.

The theory is called Darwinism so yes I know a bit about it, I did year 7 science after all... though the issue is it is still a theory. Hence "The theory of evolution" secondly Darwins original thoughts was this was to become the reason about how we were here. But he still believed God did it.

" Though he thought of religion as a tribal survival strategy, Darwin still believed that God was the ultimate lawgiver" That is granted on Wikipedia but it is pretty well known that he believed God was the reason whether we were evolved or not. Not Natural Selection. He believed in essence that yes evolution happened, but it was more higher power controlled.

I still cant believe I said columbus before, what a boo boo :(

I am not questioning your belief when I write this, but how can you be 100% percent of anything? Just querying more then anything.