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Forums - Gaming - So I finally finished Final Fantasy XIII...and I didn't really like it

A203D said:
RageBot said:
hikaruchan said:

I am just going to say this for ALL the People who believe that Final Fantasy XIII is the "WORST GAME EVERS" if you liked Vagrant Story then you are Hypocrites.

Final Fantasy is Final Fantasy because it dose NOT conform to a set mold that is why every Final Fantasy is DIFFERENT from the last except for compilation pieces of cores.      


What?

Vagrant Story and FFXIII are different on so, so many levels...

Hikaruchan, tbh i dont love Vagrant Story, but i do like it and the story, narrative is phenonminal. VS is way too hard core, you could never expect a game like that to become successful, because its extreme. i find it very similar to Demon's Souls. and VS has such a great 'darkness' to it. but the battles are too hard imo. but its still a very good game.

FF13 is a fail because its not made for you an me. we were always going to buy it anyway. its made that way because since FF8 Square have been chasing a dream, which is to realise the critical and commerical success of FF7. FF13 was meant to be that game.

Final Fantasy is meant to different from the last, but the core of any half decent game is that at its core its a game. FF13 is hated because there are very poor gameplay elements. FF13 dosent conform to any set mold because imo its not even a game, its just a series of cutscenes (that some people have compared to a soap opera, i dont however); that is broken up by banal, monotous battles.

eg the Vile Peaks is such a boring dungeon. you fight a battle with some monster. then you fight the same battle again, using exactly the same strategy, (each battle is a scripted encounter). then you watch a cutscene, then you fight the same series of battles until the next cutscene. until eventully you face a boss, or you enter the next area via a cutscene.

after this cutscene you fight a scripted battle with a new enemy, and you repeat this process until the end of the game. i agree, that FF dosent have to conform to standards of the past, but if you look at what i've said i havent compared it to any game, or any RPG, based on the game itself its just not a good game, its a series of cutscenes broken up, by a scriped, monotous battle system. that dosent even call into question the dialogue itself or the lack of substance in the story.

What do you mean by "scripted"? The enemies do not behave the same in every battle. They will use different attacks at different points. To be honest, the fact that you use the same strategy is more of a critique against games in general. When I play Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 and Demon's Souls, I use the same strategy to beat enemies and bosses, but this does not make the game monotonous as it still requires skill to execute. While RPGs take more strategy than skill and are less skill-based than other genres, this it true for all RPGs and not just Final Fantasy XIII. When I play RPGs, once I figure out the best strategy for fighting an enemy, I continue to use that strategy against that enemy. This does not hold true for just Final Fantasy XIII, but it holds true for every RPG/Strategy game I have ever played. My main point is the fact that you can use the same strategies against enemies does not just apply to Final Fantasy XIII. It applies to just about every single-player game in existence. Single-player experiences rely on the player recognizing patterns of attack and utilizing the proper attacks when the situation presents itself.



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The Xbox Man said:
A203D said:

i get the impression that people dont really know why they like it, its just because the name FF is on the cover.

Your wrong, this was my first Final Fantasy and for many of my friends too (who liked it). Are the 73 positive reviews it got because reviewers never knew why they liked it? http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/final-fantasy-xiii/critic-reviews . I can accept you don't like the game, but don't say people who like it don't know why. FFXIII recently got a user's choice award and was 4th in the GOTY thread made by a user a few days back. Anyway if that is your poor attitude I will be ignoring all your posts from now on.

Alright okay, i'm sorry, i genunily thought that a lot of people were just fanboys or fangirls, who didnt really understand why they liked the game. i've said a lot about why i dont like it, so its not like i'm just picking a fight, there are things that are fundamentally wrong imo, but if you like, who am i to dispute that?? its not my call.



The Xbox Man said:
A203D said:

i get the impression that people dont really know why they like it, its just because the name FF is on the cover.

Your wrong, FFXIII recently got a user's choice award and was 4th in the GOTY thread made by a user a few days back. Anyway if that is your poor attitude I will be ignoring all your posts from now on.

That is only because this site has a ton of JRPG only fans not because it resembles an actual unbiased sample. The hype leading up to ff13 was biggest I have seen on this site because it is plain and simple, JRPG fans congregate here.



chocoloco said:
The Xbox Man said:
A203D said:

i get the impression that people dont really know why they like it, its just because the name FF is on the cover.

Your wrong, FFXIII recently got a user's choice award and was 4th in the GOTY thread made by a user a few days back. Anyway if that is your poor attitude I will be ignoring all your posts from now on.

That is only because this site has a ton of JRPG only fans not because it resembles an actual unbiased sample. The hype leading up to ff13 was biggest I have seen on this site because it is plain and simple, JRPG fans congregate here.


I would not say it is a great game, but I liked it and enjoyed playing it. It would not win any awards from me, but I still think it is a good game. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the big problem with the game is that the battle system only feels complete during post-game play where you have the ability to level up all your classes. Because of this, completionists who want to get all the trophies, achievements or just 100% the game are the only ones who are going to experience the fully developed battle system. I can personally say I thoroughly enjoyed the battle system because it was fluid, unique, and balanced the line between strategy and attack recognition.

Now, if you asked me the question upon completion of the game, my response would have been different because I honestly thought the battle-system was broken, but my views changed as I continued to play the game and became more familiar with how to utilize the classes in conjuntion with each other. That is my reason for liking the game, and it has nothing to do with the name of Final Fantasy on the cover.



GameOver22 said:
A203D said:
RageBot said:
hikaruchan said:

I am just going to say this for ALL the People who believe that Final Fantasy XIII is the "WORST GAME EVERS" if you liked Vagrant Story then you are Hypocrites.

Final Fantasy is Final Fantasy because it dose NOT conform to a set mold that is why every Final Fantasy is DIFFERENT from the last except for compilation pieces of cores.      


What?

Vagrant Story and FFXIII are different on so, so many levels...

Hikaruchan, tbh i dont love Vagrant Story, but i do like it and the story, narrative is phenonminal. VS is way too hard core, you could never expect a game like that to become successful, because its extreme. i find it very similar to Demon's Souls. and VS has such a great 'darkness' to it. but the battles are too hard imo. but its still a very good game.

FF13 is a fail because its not made for you an me. we were always going to buy it anyway. its made that way because since FF8 Square have been chasing a dream, which is to realise the critical and commerical success of FF7. FF13 was meant to be that game.

Final Fantasy is meant to different from the last, but the core of any half decent game is that at its core its a game. FF13 is hated because there are very poor gameplay elements. FF13 dosent conform to any set mold because imo its not even a game, its just a series of cutscenes (that some people have compared to a soap opera, i dont however); that is broken up by banal, monotous battles.

eg the Vile Peaks is such a boring dungeon. you fight a battle with some monster. then you fight the same battle again, using exactly the same strategy, (each battle is a scripted encounter). then you watch a cutscene, then you fight the same series of battles until the next cutscene. until eventully you face a boss, or you enter the next area via a cutscene.

after this cutscene you fight a scripted battle with a new enemy, and you repeat this process until the end of the game. i agree, that FF dosent have to conform to standards of the past, but if you look at what i've said i havent compared it to any game, or any RPG, based on the game itself its just not a good game, its a series of cutscenes broken up, by a scriped, monotous battle system. that dosent even call into question the dialogue itself or the lack of substance in the story.

What do you mean by "scripted"? The enemies do not behave the same in every battle. They will use different attacks at different points. To be honest, the fact that you use the same strategy is more of a critique against games in general. When I play Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 and Demon's Souls, I use the same strategy to beat enemies and bosses, but this does not make the game monotonous as it still requires skill to execute. While RPGs take more strategy than skill and are less skill-based than other genres, this it true for all RPGs and not just Final Fantasy XIII. When I play RPGs, once I figure out the best strategy for fighting an enemy, I continue to use that strategy against that enemy. This does not hold true for just Final Fantasy XIII, but it holds true for every RPG/Strategy game I have ever played. My main point is the fact that you can use the same strategies against enemies does not just apply to Final Fantasy XIII. It applies to just about every single-player game in existence. Single-player experiences rely on the player recognizing patterns of attack and utilizing the proper attacks when the situation presents itself.

In FF13, all your meant to do is stagger your opponent, you do this exactly the same way. Ravager, Commando, Ravager, etc. yeah you can use Synergist, or Medic but the battles are fought the same way when you fight the same type of opponent. for example that Porcupine thing that you must stagger, and it takes AGES.

they do this so you can watch Lightning or Snow lanuch an enemy into the air. then you rinse and repeat again and again. you have to do these things.

of course all gameplay elements in games are scripted. but in FF13 the only gameplay element; the battles, (i dont count cutscenes as gameplay by the way); are forced encounters. you have to do them, i dont know why enemies are present on the field map, because you cant possibly escape from all of them on such a narrow road. and if you dont you cant get EXP. the encounters are scripted, because your paramaters, eg your levels, moves, weapons, are capped, thus your actions in battle are predetermined. the conditions of each engagement have been rigidly controlled, so you have to watch the enemy launch into the air, etc. stuff like that.

so the encounters are scripted, all the battles have to played in the same way. its monotous because you have to have to fight that same enemy 10 or 12 times before the next cutscene, and other than the battles there is no other gameplay element, other than runing to the next cutscene.

but on the brightside Toriyama thinks it would be very fun to have the player jump across 1000 dragons, maybe you can enjoy that in FF13-2, inbetween some nice, long cutscenes.



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A203D said:
 

In FF13, all your meant to do is stagger your opponent, you do this exactly the same way. Ravager, Commando, Ravager, etc. yeah you can use Synergist, or Medic but the battles are fought the same way when you fight the same type of opponent. for example that Porcupine thing that you must stagger, and it takes AGES.

At  the risk of sounding both like a jerk and cliched - that's becuase you were doing it wrong. Sure, Ravager/Commando/Ravager works great for a large portion of enemies, but it's often the case where it's much, much quicker and more effective using a Sabotuer or two. Sab/Rav/Sab is particularly fast for staggering an opponent.

There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of FF XIII - Hell, I think it's among the poorest in the series as I'd mentioned earlier in the thread - but I think having 'scripted' battles is not one of them. There are several ways of approaching any one battle (namely in the latter stages of the game). Sure, there are more efficient ways than others for certain enemy types but they do differ from battle to battle.

It isn't a game I'd likely ever play again - due to a boring plot and somewhat shallow characters, but I thought its battle system, especially in the latter parts of the game, was thoroughly enjoyable.

Edit: Thought I'd add some afterthoughts. The system, played to its strengths, challenges the player to actively think during battle: having you assess your enemy, determining whether or not either debuffs or buffs are necessary or time effective; how best to build and stabilize your gauge - having a commando out isn't always the most effective option; and it requires you to correctly time your switches.

Played properly (and I don't at all mean this in a condescending manner), it is among the most demanding and rewarding systems in any turn-based JRPG I'd ever played.



You are not alone, that game was really really TERRIBLE. Worst FF ever.



pearljammer said:
A203D said:
 

In FF13, all your meant to do is stagger your opponent, you do this exactly the same way. Ravager, Commando, Ravager, etc. yeah you can use Synergist, or Medic but the battles are fought the same way when you fight the same type of opponent. for example that Porcupine thing that you must stagger, and it takes AGES.

At  the risk of sounding both like a jerk and cliched - that's becuase you were doing it wrong. Sure, Ravager/Commando/Ravager works great for a large portion of enemies, but it's often the case where it's much, much quicker and more effective using a Sabotuer or two. Sab/Rav/Sab is particularly fast for staggering an opponent.

There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of FF XIII - Hell, I think it's among the poorest in the series as I'd mentioned earlier in the thread - but I think having 'scripted' battles is not one of them. There are several ways of approaching any one battle (namely in the latter stages of the game). Sure, there are more efficient ways than others for certain enemy types but they do differ from battle to battle.

It isn't a game I'd likely ever play again - due to a boring plot and somewhat shallow characters, but I thought its battle system, especially in the latter parts of the game, was thoroughly enjoyable.

Edit: Thought I'd add some afterthoughts. The system, played to its strengths, challenges the player to actively think during battle: having you assess your enemy, determining whether or not either debuffs or buffs are necessary or time effective; how best to build and stabilize your gauge - having a commando out isn't always the most effective option; and it requires you to correctly time your switches.

Played properly (and I don't at all mean this in a condescending manner), it is among the most demanding system in any turn-based JRPG I'd ever played.

You summed up my intended response perfectly. Saying that Ravager/Commando/Ravager sums up the battle system is a minimal explanation for the gameplay. If this type of minimal explanation was used for any game, I could make the game seem like a shallow, repetitive experience. Especially in some of the later battles, particularly the Cie'th missions, I would actually say it is necessary to use all of the different classes in the same battle and be proficient at switching back and forth between them very quickly depending on the situation. I also must say I completely agree with your final two sections(the edited part).



This game isn't nearly as bad as some are making it out to be. Is it a disappointment? Yes, I believe so, but only because I've played the other Final Fantasys and expected more. Is it a terrible game? Absolutely not. It's great. Even though the characters can be a little annoying every now and then, they develop well through the course of the game, Hope especially. Again, my only complaint is that the game didn't feel complete. The Analects seem to point to this. A proper sequel, if handled very carefully, could rectify this.



The Xbox Man said:
A203D said:

i get the impression that people dont really know why they like it, its just because the name FF is on the cover.

Your wrong, this was my first Final Fantasy and for many of my friends too (who liked it). Are the 73 positive reviews it got because reviewers never knew why they liked it? http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/final-fantasy-xiii/critic-reviews . I can accept you don't like the game, but don't say people who like it don't know why. FFXIII recently got a user's choice award and was 4th in the GOTY thread made by a user a few days back. Anyway if that is your poor attitude I will be ignoring all your posts from now on.

And this is one of the few honest reviews out of the lot of those ridiculous perfect score reviews. http://www.destructoid.com/review-final-fantasy-xiii-167136.phtml

We spend half our time disagreeing with reviews here on VGC, yet metacritic is now the judge of all that is holy. Swallow this: Final Fantasy XIII is the lowest metacritic scoring title in the main series. I don't even want to talk about those misleading ... MISLEADING reviews.

I agree that sometimes it feels like those who like the game have no idea why they like it, but I do know a lot of people who ended up not liking the game were mislead into believing it was actually a good game. I do know that everyone I personally know either returned the game or never finished it out of sheer disgust.

Why don't you follow Boutros example and admit you only like the game becasue it's a straight line for 100 hours. Nothing confusing. The battle system is on  automatic, watch the cinematics, and call it a day.

I take not knowing why people like FFXIII back ... they like it because it's SIMPLE! Square Enix did get one thing right, appeal to a new audience.

Also that choice award thing you mentioned was because it sold over one million copies in Japan ....



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson