I've seen that video, just because it somewhat steers (while still ramming into walls and going off path) when he doesn't move his hands doesn't mean it does nothing when you DO use your hands or use your body for boost.  The game still responds to my movements.

Try harder.

And?

This just in!  Businesses and Microsoft partners caught developing software for a Microsoft product!  News at 11!

I heard from a friend of mine who works in the industry that some of the people who develop PS3 games like Uncharted are actually PAID Sony employees.  Scary but true.

I'm very surprised that you wouldn't find anything wrong with this. I expect good dialogue from you and logical arguments, but this is far from one of them.

There is a very distinct difference between releasing code as part of a product's extended capability, and pretending that you're a large group of end-users who are very interested in the product. 

This would be like if any of the big companies released piracy hacks for their own system and then bricked all the hacked ones after a couple months.

This would be like if any of the companies sold their own products to themselves (ie: say everyone gets a ps3 if you work for Sony, except that they don't give you one, they just pay you back when you buy one from a store)

I would be appalled if I found out Sony did stuff like this. And, well, I am. Sony did this with the PSP. They did a viral campaign where they hired graffiti artists to graffiti the side of buildings, signs, etc to make it look like PSP was the underground cool hip peripheral that cool people have. I was really upset by that. It's the main reason why I do not own a psp despite having valkyrie profile (which is one of my top 5 of all time).

So yeah. I think there is a problem when you present your product in such a way that you make it look like its a trend buy having your own employees go around pretending to be end-users.

Forums online have major issues with any of the company's employees being members and either a) trolling other consoles or b) misrepresenting themselves. People have been called out on it before. I remember a specific one on neogaf where someone who was trolling the ps3 was outed by a mod as a microsoft employee.

Bolded line completely annihilated your argument. Microsoft employees manipulating Kinect in their spare time on the PC is not prohibited by Microsoft, nor does it have anything to do with the loss of revenue as it has not led to any illegal activity such as pirating commercial titles.

While I don't know near anything about the technical side of Kinect or coding beyond very basic terms, I used to live and breath the homebrew PSP scene for years. I'm well aware of what is legal and illegal in terms of creating applications using a company's product; this isn't illegal. Microsoft also stated that they made Kinect very easy to manipulate and create drivers for on a PC so people could use use it on Windows 7, and have specifically stated that they have not changed the code of the device. Now, if these "Microsoft" hackers were creating ways to play Kinect games without paying for them, thats illegal. I may have missed it if they have; need link if true. Will validate your argument, and invalidate mine.

Now if Microsoft paid it's employees to make apps for Kinect under an online psuedonym, thats a different argument, and also one that isn't illegal or negative in nearly any stretch of the imagination. If Microsoft wants to show the capabilities of it's new device on a person-to-person level, doing this would be a good way to do so. It would also be a help to indie devs looking to utilise Kinect on 360.

Alternatively, if you are talking entirely about the piracy scene on 360  and have come to the conclusion that the people who created custom firmwares or Jtags are working for Microsoft, I'll get my tin foil hat immediately. Also, this is thread about Kinect hacking, not 360 modding, so that would be off-topic.

I type all this under the presumption that there really are Microsoft employees hacking Kinect.

Been a while since I typed this much on a forum. Now if only I could get it in green text . . .

I can't see bolded on this computer so I don't know what part you're referring to. I'll simply refer to your responsen snowblind.

Let me make it clear how frustrated I am that you completely misunderstood everything I wrote.

1st paragraph: I didn't say in any way that these were microsoft employees screwing around on kinect in their spare time. You ASSUMED that for your own reasons. Case in point.

The very people that "hacked" this product in the OP (razorfish I believe their name is) are a marketing and design company who specifically tout having Microsoft as a client. The OP software "davinci?" is a Microsoft product. So to that extent, they have indeed been hired.

In another case, So Touch Air Presenter was developed by a Microsoft tech partner. 

My point is: these aren't underground hackers as they're being portrayed, they are skilled engineers hired to create and port these "hacks" under the guise of being just everyday people.

2nd paragraph:

I never said that they were creating piracy or in any way comparing piracy to the kinect hacks. I was comparing two ideas. I was saying that it is like releasing a piracy hack only to brick it several months later. I did not mean it in the way that these are hacks, but in the way that it is a company telling everyone in the market that they can play pirated games now, whereupon they sell many more consoles than they normally do, and then brick them. In that sense, the company justifies it because the bricked console both a) made them hardware profit, and b) gave a "trial" usage to an otherwise non-customer, whom may now be hooked to a certain game, or have developed an affection for the console. In this way, it is similar. 

3rd paragraph:

If you don't think it's a problem then fine. I mean there aren't laws against having corporations provide thousands of great reviews for their own products, or trolling tech websites to control damage. I find it amusing though, because in my experience, viral marketing (which is what this distinctly is) upsets people because it's basically a lie. It's a basic rule of viral. Don't get caught. So, you don't care. I don't think I care about your opinion then, snow. :P

4th paragraph:

Again, never did I say any of that happened. I'm equating those things to what I see. Artificial environments created by boosting sales or interest in a shady way.

I knew it! Before I even posted I knew you were gonna call me that

1st paragraph

Considering that this is a topic about hacking KINECT . . . and your response to daroamer was that you knew "3 Microsoft partners" (the assumption being "partners" refers to those who work for Microsoft)

The second point is that I'm not sure how they are being portrayed as underground hackers if they readily tout themselves as being a client of Microsoft. If these hackers are known to the public as being Microsoft's clients, then its not any of Microsoft's fault that they are being passed as underground hackers (I'm not even sure how the term "underground" can be used here, if razorfish or other hackers are releasing the hack by their common username/psuedonym.) Even then, I'm not sure how this could cause a negative appearence on Microsoft's part, since "hacking" the Kinect isn't illegal as they have done. Last I checked, graffiti was.

Paragraph Dos

The comparison then was poor. In one scenario the company is selling it's product to later "brick" it and turn it into a large plastic coaster. In the second, where Kinect is concerned nothing of the sort is happening, in fact Kinect's usage is being expanded on through use of a PC. If you didn't mean it like piracy, I'm not quite sure how this is in any way related to the topic? Its definitely possible that I thought you were talking about the topic at hand, which is why I assumed you were speaking of the hackers for Kinect.

3rd Paragraph

If this truly is simply viral marketing, it's done in a way that gives buyers or potential buyers even more (albeit pretty useless) ways to use their product. Personally I don't mind a type of marketing where I can get free apps . . . but who knows. And silly professor, everyone cares about my opinion. Everyone.

Ever.

This includes you.

4th Paragraph

Unless Microsoft has stated that they have nothing to do with the hackers creating their own apps, and then the hackers come right out and say they do, I'm not sure how we can say it's artificially created without putting on our ol' tins and calling it a conspiracy.

@Mr.Metralha

It's called firmware upgrades, like any console or handheld has gotten before it. Both MS heads already said it is very possible to get both cameras to recognize up to 4x more joints and plot points /w both cameras running at 640x480 @ 60FPS by utilizing more of the untapped power, but I wouldn't expect an OBVIOUS biased Nintendo fanboy that wants to talk about symantics when it is obvious first gen hardware.

I can already tell you are going to be an annoying troll which is why I signed up just to show you how clueless you are. Also, with this tech demo it is possible with just the Kinect and to use TWO hands to forge a bond between the objects something not possible without 2 wii-motes or move controllers. Which would mean it's not applicable as a real world application for a future game as the wii does not use two remotes simultaneously throwing your theory out the window.

As for anyone saying that Dance Central uses simulated images to match the IR camera, incorrect because it is constant motion that being projected in a timed sequence. Meaning that if the Kinect had the latency issues that people are presenting it would never be able to correlate correctly with any of the move at the exact time pattern due to the fraction it is off. This is not a game where you are holding a pose or matching a shape to thecamera like the inferior Eyetoy presented.

This again is only the first gen of the hardware and firmware upgrade can be implemented very easier to increase the power making it possible for finger movements and subtle movements to be detected further away opening all genres.

First off, you fail.

Calling someone a troll when he is right does not make you any kind of hero. Future firmware upgrades huh? You even sure that they will actually happen? No you don't, but it's always nice to run off with your mouth, isn't it?

As of now, it's only 30 fps. 

Second of all, i'm pretty sure you could program the nunchuck to act as a left hand in the da vinchi app.

Uh another pointless post further illustrating my point. Yes I do know they will happen because they have already been approved within the first month of the damn thing being out. It's first GEN hardware which means there will definitely be upgrades made through the firmware without touching the existing base unit.

I am stating he is a troll because he is trying to disprove and undermine everything positive being said about the device whereever it has been posted, without actually having any clear cut facts. As of now it is 30 FPS, the device utilizes 10% of the 360s power in it's current state.

Lastly, no the nunchuck is a manuvering device with no IR sensor, so it couldn't be calibrated to do such a thing. Also, I have right to start a debate with whoever I want with facts that I know thanks though.