Pachter doesn't give a shit about sony's BS numbers .Sony could announce that they've shipped a billion move "things" (they never explain what they mean when they say move) and it would be the same for Pachter and the market in general. He just said that sony has sold 400k in the first 6 weeks in the U.S .

The problem with move is that its software sales are abysmal and has no impact whatsoever in the market. PSP looks like a software monster compared to move , seriously it's like the move-specific games don't even appear on store shelves , judging by what they are selling (=close to zero). 

Well if patcher sais its true it must b because the wii is dooooomed XD

They most likley count every move controller separately, that means that you can safely cut their shipping number by half if you want to estimate the user base. And you will still overtrack it because people buy at least a couple of wands. The fact that the starter kit hasn't sold well like the wand it's an indication of this.

Move is untreakable, and sony will never give clear move numbers (like the number of starter kits they shipped). But for me is fairly clear (and not surprising) that it will sell a lot less than kinect.

Did you read anything of what I explained above? Did you understand nothing at all what I wrote? Do I have to spell it out for you word for word?

Seriously, what is wrong with you ignorant people ?

EDIT: This post has been moderated. -d1

Firstly I didn't insult you nor I did quote you nor I was talking to you. I didn't even read your post which was on another page. So I find a bit out of the line your comment.

Now I read your post and you didn't mention any source, so I take that is your speculation. Sony didn't detail their shipping numbers if I'm not wrong. You say 70%-80% of starter kit, but that doesn't make sense because the demand of the wand is a lot higher you usually need 2 or more move wands and 2 or more navigation controllers. But you only need 1 starter kit. Beside the starter kit comes with soports champions that hasn't exactly set the charts on fire.

pac gets more wrong then right, we all know kinect will outsell move at first, my bets are on move for the long run though

If you could play AAA title games that also had regular controls on the kinect no one would buy the launch kinect specific shovelware either. Not to mention like a third of them are on the PSN as downloadable. And ignoring the fact that the Kinect top seller is unavoidably sold with every kinect. I'm not saying Move or kinect will push more software than the other but don't be dumb. It's not a problem with the Move, Sony stacked the cards against it to not have move-specific "chart toppers." Infact most of the big games that have been announced for the move in the future are not even Move specific games. I'm sure they will have some, but they wont be the chart toppers. Not until the Move userbase gets much bigger. 

(My above rant was probably more directed against johnglen than you but I don't really discuss with people that use fantasy names instead of their real names).

a) Here we have your problem. You jump into a thread and start typing without reading what is discussed or whether there is anything disproving your theory right before you start typing. Usually before I type into a discussion, I make sure my ideas aren't already there somewhere. But I am old school..

b) No, that is personal observation in local shops, confirmation from two other countries (by emails I got), and by my experience in mass manufacturing and 0815 logic.

c) This patently false. Starter kits do not contain Sports Champion or any other full retail software (at least in the European countries I know of).

Again, there are two false assumptions being made here by many people (including ioi):

1. Full retail software is a direct measure on how Move sold initially. It is not (hell, the shops here didn't even have Move software in stock the first two days Move appeared...). I know you don't believe that, so your only way of ever finding out is to go to shops and ask them how many people walked out with a lonely Starter pack, or with a SP and additional full retail software. The result might surprise you.

2. People buy single controlers with/after their purchase of the Starter pack, like there is no tomorrow. This is absolutely false because that controler stock simply didn't exist when Move launched. Even if we assume that no owner of an eyepet ever bought a dildo, the maximum possible attach rate would be roughly 1.2-1.25 for the initial unit shipments (and not 1.6-2.0 as ioi wants you to believe). I can imagine that there were/are lots of people wanting to buy another 1,2 or 3 dildos, but that stock simply wasn't manufactured. Even now, after several resupply shipments, these single controlers can be difficult to find. Again, I know you don't believe me so your only way of ever finding out is to go to shops and ask them about the split in the initial shipment (not that I think any shop will tell you that unless you have connections - which some people inexpliccably seem to have).

All I can say about European move sales is that Move isn't selling very well at Amazon UK, Amazon France or Amazon Germany. It is like 180th best selling in UK, 280th in France and like 80th in Germany.

Kinect is easily outselling Move at all three Amazon websites.

Yeah, because they don't have any in stock. They're only distributing expensive third party offerings right now (65€ vs 40€ for a controller and 80€ vs 60€ for the Starter Pack) and at least at amazon.de it's been that way for weeks. (I know that because I'm trying to get a second Move and I can't find one for a reasonable price.)  Sony is failing hard at restocking after the launch shipment.

Of course that doesn't mean that Kinect wouldn't outsell it anyway - Kinect just launched so it's probable - but it makes the comparison rather pointless.