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Forums - General - Some basic Questions about Religion from a total non-believer

Armads said:
tolu619 said:

And the voices, my brother's and another guy's, coincidentally came on the night my brother spoke with Jesus in his dream. Come on, what are the chances?

 

Actually quite good statistically speaking.  There are roughly 7 billion people on the planet, the largest religions being christianity and islam (closely followed by secularism) combined with the fact that dreams are based off of memories to an extent means they will be based off of what you know.  If you're a christian you'll dream of jesus or god, islamic you'll dream of mohommad or god because these things are in your memories.  If you've gone to mass every sunday of your life and are 18 years old that means you've been there 1,008 times, if jesus was mentioned only 5 times per mass that would be 5,040 times you've heard the word jesus.  And that figure is only from mass, not to mention when you hear it in every day life.  Also it's a conservative average of times they say the word jesus or invoke his image or words.  Now I want you to go to youtube and watch the Over 9000!! meme aout 5,000 times and tell me it never pops up in your dreams.

Now tell me that 3 billion people do it and none of them dream the same thing.

 

Also your prophecy isn't proof of anything, you know how many people have seen a bird and a tower?  That kind of imagery is so vague,  if the chances that you would dream something like that right before 9/11 were only 1 in a million then there should still be 7,000 people in the world who had the same dream the same night.

I wan't the one who said he saw the 9/11 thing beforehand. It was someone else on this thread. All of mine have to do with my personal life, nothing worldwide.

 

I mean your spirit living on forever after

Accurately define a spirit.  What constitutes the spirit?  If it is consciousness then why would I believe it goes on after death?  If I believe in eternity why must I also believe that my consciousness is separate from my physical body and also eternal when there is no proof of such?

Man is a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body. God is a spirit, so are we.Your spirit is the real you. I'll admit I don't have a good way to explain it, but maybe that's because I can't explain a spiritual thing using natural descriptions.

If u don't, do u ever wonder 'What if they're right & there is a God? Will I spend eternity in hell?'.

No, just like you don't wonder if you'll spend eternity in Hades.

 

If I were in your shoes and I thought there was even an 0.001% chance that a God exists, I would do everything in my power to be absolutely sure bcuz an eternity in hell is not a risk I'm willing to take.

See you're not making your decisions based on sound logic but fear.  You just admitted it.  You're afraid of the possibility of being wrong so you doubt logic and indulge in superestition, this is the weakest argument you could make because it's an argument which relies on your personal need for belief rather then any empirical evidence for it.

Your argument is sound but that's not what I meant. It's not my major driving force. I'm just saying if I were an unbeliever and thought there was a chance there was a God, I won't risk not being sure. But you guys sound pretty sure.

I didn't assume that. I assumed the opposite. So I did some extensive research on many religions and found the truth by EXPERIENCE. Either that, or there are too many coincidences in my life. God tells us (I'm talking about me, my personal experiences & others of my faith as a group now) things that we couldn't have known otherwise and we find out that it's true. He heals what even medical science can't. 

If you want me to tell you specific instances in detail, I can. But either my life is full of amazing coincidences or I serve a living God.

 

Your life isn't full of amazing coincidences it's full of superstition.  If I told you that the number 12 was important, that it governed your life, you would look for it in everything.  Just as you do with your god.  I mean there are 12 inches in a foot, 12 months in a year, your nameequals 12 when you add it all up T=20 O=15 L=12 u=21, 20 15 12 21 6 1 9=84

8 4=12

I didn't even do the math until after I picked the number 12 even.  If you want to believe something bad enough you'll find ways to convince yourself.  God spoke to me! God helped me win that baseball game!  God saved me from the car crash! but there is no logical reason to believe any of this.

I have seen superstition and it is totally different from belief. Now it's possible for one to believe wrongly based on wrong facts(the earth is flat because the ground is) but superstition isn't even based on false facts. It's amost based on nothing!


Anyone who sincerely looks for the truth will find it. God promised that. But if you don't sincerely look for the truth, if you just half heartedly conclude things based on science and whatever else you drew your conclusions from, you may not find the truth.

I still believe you will find God if you search for Him with an open mind. But right now, your mind is convinced that he can't possible exist.



You make those final comments with a condescending tone.  You seem to feel that you know more about belief than anyone who is an atheist.  To you if they did any spiritual searching they would find god because you've convinced yourself he exists and will not take any view other then that no matter what.  Your criticisms speak of yourself and as evidence in defiance of your ill-conceived conclusion I present my own life.  Raised a Roman Catholic, studied buddhism in high school and continue to practice meditation, researched glossolalia in college and induced it in myself (it's been scientifically shown to be a learned trait and no miracle at all) and yet have no belief in God.  God didn't see fit to convince me when I was a child being indoctrinated in to catholicism by my parents, he didn't seek to convince me when I explored other cultures (including some south american shamanism) he didn't see fit to convince me with pentecostalism, nor with episcopalianism , nor baptism.  This god even kept The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins from burning in a house that burnt down and allowed me to find it and read it.  I'd say he's done a pretty good job at convincing us otherwise if he does exist.


     Honestly, I wasn't trying to be condescending. OK, so God didn't convinve you that he existed. But where your studies aimed at finding him, or disproving his existence, or just unenthusiastic?



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tolu619 said:
Armads said:
tolu619 said:

I wan't the one who said he saw the 9/11 thing beforehand. It was someone else on this thread. All of mine have to do with my personal life, nothing worldwide.

 My mistake, well explaining simple voices is much easier in fact. I've even heard a voice before.  You'll find that the human brain is prone to hallucination.  It hallucinates when entering or exiting a dream state, upon recieving trauma, if malnourished or deprived of rest, even if simply overstresseed.  In my youth I often experienced hypnogogic hallucinations when I woke (and sleep paralysis.)

 

Man is a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body. God is a spirit, so are we.Your spirit is the real you. I'll admit I don't have a good way to explain it, but maybe that's because I can't explain a spiritual thing using natural descriptions.

 

To me that definition of spirit doesn't describe anything beyond simply your consciousness.  If you are equating god with human consciousness then I have nothing to argue.  You can believe in an eternal consciousness, I find no reason not to (I'm undecided on the issue of whether or not there is an afterlife, but I lean heavily towards believing there isn't.)

 

 


     Honestly, I wasn't trying to be condescending. OK, so God didn't convinve you that he existed. But where your studies aimed at finding him, or disproving his existence, or just unenthusiastic?


As an person who believes in the scientific method I do not approach the subject with a predispostion so strong that it effects the end result.  Form a hypothesis, experiment, analyze, and conclude.  I believed in god when I was a small child, but then I moved on when I found solutions to the equation of life that answer the question better.  I hardly think you could call me unenthusiastic when I fasted, spent days in meditation (still meditate today, just don't do marathon sessions) went on a diet shamans do before a spiritual journey (nothing but steamed white rice and unsalted fish for a month with water to drink.)
  To be honest I think that most atheists have done more spiritual searching then believers of any faith (who tend to stay in the same faith more or less for their whole lives).  You only get to see the 13 year olds who are just discovering a new way of thought if you only interact with atheists on the internet.  When you meet the real atheist community of the world you see they tend to be very knowledgable on the subject of world religions, haven't met one in real life who wasn't.

Thread derailed btw D:



leatherhat said:
tolu619 said:
sapphi_snake said:

@quigontcb:

1)There is plenty of history in scripture. True, it should not be taken in and of itself to be an authoratative document that is beyong scrutiny for scholars of history. I dont see why the history contained in books fo the Bible should be completely dismissed, while the writings of some scribe who worked for or under a conquering king or general are acceptable for inclusion.

There is very little actual "history" in the Bible. Most of it is mythological mombo jombo. Those scribes you mentioned are better sources.

The people who wrote Christian scriptures, as you say, would not want to elevate Jesus to deity status, unless you are saying that they did not believe he was some sort of deity.

They probably wanted to believe he was a deity (the same way the followers of any such figure want to believe). People like this often make up stuff in order to elevate certain individuals and make them seem greater than they were (it's also true when you read stories about how great kings were). The point os creating a mythical figure (Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed etc.). After all, you'd be a real hypocrite to say that their followers made up all the supernatural things about the Buddha or about Mohammed, yet everything that was said about Jesus by his followers was true (it's pretty obvious it's not).

3)You're speaking with an awful lot of authority there. It's not what you think, it's simply an undeniable truth? On what grounds can you claim, that without a shadow of a doubt, all prophecies are false? Would you be operating on an assumption, on faith in an idea? That puts you on the same level as anyone who believes in a creator; both operating on faith, just faith in different concepts, theories, and ideas.

Show me a prophecy that came true (note it has to be a prophecy that gives clear detailes, not riddles, and is not one that can become self-fulfilled). I dare you!


Do you realise that Noah's Ark was found and many locations in the Bible that people thought were made up have been discovered? And many proofs of things in the Bible have been found in many places. Where do u think we got the general idea of what Jesus is supposed to look like from? A scroll was found that describes his appearance and carraige and it wasn't written by someone who believed in his teachings. BTW, for anyone interested, a part of the scroll said "No man has ever seen him smile!"


What religion are you, I'm catholic myself and we know that the stories of floods, creation etc. are just manmade nonsense to help understand GOD. 

As in, we know GOD didn't make the world in seven days with adam and eve, but he did create the world.


So take what you want and what you don't like, through it out. You accept all of it or don't.  The bible is one book and doesn't say fiction on it. So, all is mean't to be taken SERIOUSLY. IF you have a hard time believeing in some parts then maybe you should look up Charles Darwin. 

 

 



bannedagain said:So take what you want and what you don't like, through it out. You accept all of it or don't.  The is one book and doesn't say fiction on it. So, all is mean't to be taken SERIOUSLY. IF you have a hard time believeing in some parts then maybe you should look up Charles Darwin.     

Well it's literally impossible to believe in every part of the bible because it contradicts itself.  The authors can't even agree on jesus's birth.  The bible should be taken as nothing more than a very loose account of events that may or may not have happened and stories meant to teach a moral or lesson.



Armads said:

bannedagain said:So take what you want and what you don't like, through it out. You accept all of it or don't.  The bible is one book and doesn't say fiction on it. So, all is mean't to be taken SERIOUSLY. IF you have a hard time believeing in some parts then maybe you should look up Charles Darwin.     

Well it's literally impossible to believe in every part of the bible because it contradicts itself.  The authors can't even agree on jesus's birth.  The bible should be taken as nothing more than a very loose account of events that may or may not have happened and stories meant to teach a moral or lesson.


agree completely. Read my post in earlier pages.

EDIT : I missed a word in the original post, what a fail.



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Armads said:
tolu619 said:
Armads said:
tolu619 said:

I wan't the one who said he saw the 9/11 thing beforehand. It was someone else on this thread. All of mine have to do with my personal life, nothing worldwide.

 My mistake, well explaining simple voices is much easier in fact. I've even heard a voice before.  You'll find that the human brain is prone to hallucination.  It hallucinates when entering or exiting a dream state, upon recieving trauma, if malnourished or deprived of rest, even if simply overstresseed.  In my youth I often experienced hypnogogic hallucinations when I woke (and sleep paralysis.)

 

Man is a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body. God is a spirit, so are we.Your spirit is the real you. I'll admit I don't have a good way to explain it, but maybe that's because I can't explain a spiritual thing using natural descriptions.

 

To me that definition of spirit doesn't describe anything beyond simply your consciousness.  If you are equating god with human consciousness then I have nothing to argue.  You can believe in an eternal consciousness, I find no reason not to (I'm undecided on the issue of whether or not there is an afterlife, but I lean heavily towards believing there isn't.)

 

 


     Honestly, I wasn't trying to be condescending. OK, so God didn't convinve you that he existed. But where your studies aimed at finding him, or disproving his existence, or just unenthusiastic?


As an person who believes in the scientific method I do not approach the subject with a predispostion so strong that it effects the end result.  Form a hypothesis, experiment, analyze, and conclude.  I believed in god when I was a small child, but then I moved on when I found solutions to the equation of life that answer the question better.  I hardly think you could call me unenthusiastic when I fasted, spent days in meditation (still meditate today, just don't do marathon sessions) went on a diet shamans do before a spiritual journey (nothing but steamed white rice and unsalted fish for a month with water to drink.)
  To be honest I think that most atheists have done more spiritual searching then believers of any faith (who tend to stay in the same faith more or less for their whole lives).  You only get to see the 13 year olds who are just discovering a new way of thought if you only interact with atheists on the internet.  When you meet the real atheist community of the world you see they tend to be very knowledgable on the subject of world religions, haven't met one in real life who wasn't.

Thread derailed btw D:


I don't think you understand that the ONLY time in my life I have heard voices was the night my brother spoke to Jesus in his dream. And I heard 2 voices. My brother's and one more. It never occured to me that was Jesus until my brother told us about his dream in the morning. Oh well.



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3DS: tolu619

Wii U: FoyehBoys

Vita, PS3 and PS4: FoyehBoys

XBoxOne: Tolu619

Switch: Tolu619

Kugali - We publish comics from all across Africa and the diaspora, and we also push the boundaries of Augmented Reality storytelling. Check us out!

My thread for teaching VGC some Nigerian slangs