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Forums - General - Libertarians are anarchists who would lose in a knife fight.

Calling a libertarian an anarchist is a lot like calling a moderate liberal a communist ... Libertarianism is an ideology which believes in an efficient and limited government, not an ideology that rejects all governments.

It is an ideology that is growing in popularity in the United States primarily because of how large, inefficient, and corrupt the government has become. Many libertarians today are confused why some people would want to see an expansion of the responsibilities of the state when, if you evaluate how poorly the government has handled other responsibilities, it is clear that the government is doing an abysmal job at meeting its current responsibilities. Just consider public education in the United States today to see why people might not want further government control in their life.

Regardless of whether you think libertarianism is the correct approach in general or not, today it is the correct approach for the United States. The Government of the United States needs to be torn down to the essential components, cleaned up, and new safeguards need to be put in place to ensure that it doesn't become such a mess in the future.



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Jumpin said:

A libertarian is essentially someone who puts their faith in who has the most money and persistent greed to shape society, rather than democracy where the people choose. A large part of modern history was defeating the libertarian point of view, and guess what; society was MUCH better as a result of it.

LOL, wow talk about not understanding your topic. 



HappySqurriel said:

Calling a libertarian an anarchist is a lot like calling a moderate liberal a communist

Yes, and calling Bill Maher a libertarian is a lot like calling a spoon a fire hydrant.



Rath said:
TheRealMafoo said:

Wow.

Do you think Obama could win in a knife fight? How about Clinton (Bill or Hillary)?

You pick people who got where they are because of intellect. Of course they won't win in a knife fight. It has nothing to do with there ideology.

It's simple really. If you think the US President/Congress should defend the constitution for all people, your a libertarian. If you think they should care more about one group over another, and sacrifice the liberty of the group they cares less for in favor of the one they care more for, your not.

It's nothing more or less then that. I happen to feel when your elected President, your job is to defend the rights of all 300 million people in this country, not just the ones you like.

That does not mean I will win or lose a knife fight.

I don't see why you (and other Americans) hold the constitution to be some sort of timeless document of "WHAT IS RIGHT".

Lets face it, it was written many years ago in a very different society. Your other arguments (while I disagree with them, but I posted about that in one of the other threads) are more compelling because they aren't an appeal to this authority.

The Constitution was last written in 1992, and if people want to update it, it can be updated. The only reason it's hard to do, is because what's in it still applies today.

"WHAT IS RIGHT" is for a country who gets to shape it's laws to uphold the laws.

If taking money from people so others can have healthcare is "RIGHT", fine. Put it in the constitution. If you can't get the Governors of 3/4 the states to agree with you, then it's not right.

I can tell you this. Saying fuck the document. We know what's best for everyone and nothing should stand in our way, is most assuredly not right.



HappySqurriel said:

Calling a libertarian an anarchist is a lot like calling a moderate liberal a communist ... Libertarianism is an ideology which believes in an efficient and limited government, not an ideology that rejects all governments.

It is an ideology that is growing in popularity in the United States primarily because of how large, inefficient, and corrupt the government has become. Many libertarians today are confused why some people would want to see an expansion of the responsibilities of the state when, if you evaluate how poorly the government has handled other responsibilities, it is clear that the government is doing an abysmal job at meeting its current responsibilities. Just consider public education in the United States today to see why people might not want further government control in their life.

Regardless of whether you think libertarianism is the correct approach in general or not, today it is the correct approach for the United States. The Government of the United States needs to be torn down to the essential components, cleaned up, and new safeguards need to be put in place to ensure that it doesn't become such a mess in the future.

I agree with this

 

Oh and Bill Mahar calls himself a libertarian but he is a European socialist asshole



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Its funny how similar a lot of the idealologies are between liberals and libertarians. The differences really lie in how government plays a role in society. With liberalism you could say that the belief is that everyone ought to recieve an equal chance in life from birth and that education and health care and other forms of assistance, I.E. welfare are designed to further that goal. With libertarianism the belief is that everyone ought to be able to earn an equal chance in life so long as they try hard enough they ought to be given every chance to prosper. The means might be different but in a lot of ways the end goal is about the same.

It is a shame that in these debates a strong liberal is classed as someone who would want people to become dependant on government handouts and a libertarian is someone who is classed as a person who doesn't care about the suffering of the people or whom wants to foster a plutocracy, a ruling class of the wealthy.

 

 



Tease.

Wait?  Bill Maher is a Libertarian now?

As in politically incorrect guy?

He's not a libretarian... he's just REALLY liberal.  He wants government controlling like eveyrthing.

 

Furthermore,

A) if Pen Teller and Ron Paul got into a knife fight... somebody would have to win.

B) Who needs a knife fight when you have guns?  ANYONE can win a gunfight.



Squilliam said:

It is a shame that in these debates a strong liberal is classed as someone who would want people to become dependant on government handouts and a libertarian is someone who is classed as a person who doesn't care about the suffering of the people or whom wants to foster a plutocracy, a ruling class of the wealthy.

I don't understand this, either. Ideologically, Libertarians are split right between the parties. 

For example, people are often surprised when they find out I'm a Libertarian but have voted Democrat. They seem to think Libertarians are just an offshoot of the GOP. Once the GOP started spending money like drunken apes, I saw no point in putting up with their intolerance any longer and have been splitting a lot of my votes since that time.




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rocketpig said:
Squilliam said:

It is a shame that in these debates a strong liberal is classed as someone who would want people to become dependant on government handouts and a libertarian is someone who is classed as a person who doesn't care about the suffering of the people or whom wants to foster a plutocracy, a ruling class of the wealthy.

I don't understand this, either. Ideologically, Libertarians are split right between the parties. 

For example, people are often surprised when they find out I'm a Libertarian but have voted Democrat. They seem to think Libertarians are just an offshoot of the GOP. Once the GOP started spending money like drunken apes, I saw no point in putting up with their intolerance any longer and have been splitting a lot of my votes since that time.

I have voted right wing, left wing and even the far left wing green party!

Though personally in my country last election I was hoping the right wing party (National) would form a coalition with a left wing party, which actually happened funnily enough. It seems to me that when different sides like for instance libertarians and liberals in your context can work together that the outcomes for both can be better than each working alone. The biggest failing IMO of liberals is that they don't understand incentives and what drives people to actually succeed and in my personal experience the libertarians need to share the liberals political distrust of larger corporations and their ability to distort the free market.



Tease.

Squilliam said:

 The biggest failing IMO of liberals is that they don't understand incentives and what drives people to actually succeed and in my personal experience the libertarians need to share the liberals political distrust of larger corporations and their ability to distort the free market.

100% spot-on. My biggest beef with Libertarianism is its faith that big business will do the right thing but big government will not. It makes no sense.




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