The state is a huge entity and too impersonal to really be considered compassionate. However I did already argue that it lacks compassion to want to take away welfare - or to not want the state to give it - as its taking away the only way some people have of living.

oh, as much as I hate it, it should still exist to some point, just not nearly as open as it is now.

I think it's less about socialism... and more about it... not working.

The problem with Welfare, or at least the US Version is that is does nothing to get people ready to be in the workforce.

You just get money, and then if you don't get a job after a while...that's it.

There needs to be stuff like government training, and maybe making people work 20 hours a week for the government to get said welfare so they get used to working again, learn how to work in a work enviroment and also just build up work expiernece and confidence in actually being useful rather then just sitting at home.

Thank you, I appreciate the response and informed political view. I find it hard to disagree with many of your suggestions as I am employed in the private sector and have no stake as a public worker.

Do I like taxes? No, but I realize they are the cost for living in a society such as the USA or any industrialized nation. That being said, when USA today shows Federal bureaucrats averaging $70k/year in income and state workers $50k/year in income, while the private sector in total only averages $40k/year in income per worker, then something is seriously wrong.

Sure, the Government can print currency, but the Government does not attach value to that currency. The value of currency is created by wealth creation. Wealth creation only occurs in the private sector where individuals and companies put out products other people want. The Government does not create wealth, instead it provides the framework (infrastructure, defense, public health, and a social safety net) to allow the wealth creation, which would occcur anyways and access into the consumption system for those otherwise without a safety net who would be left out.

Deficits and public sector compensation, benefits and pensions are primary factors in driving the Tea Party movement. I find it hard to disagree from these angles, but once you get the kooks talking about doing away with the separation of church and state, then I start to wonder if the media is right in the Tea Party movement being another fountain for the Christian Right?

Yes and no.   It's not really a fountain for the Christian Right... they reached out to left leaning conservative democrats... but the media scared them away.  Republicans and Independents overwhelmingly don't buy the "they're racist" angle, but something like 70% of democrats buy it.

The democrats and media did a good job of screwing up the social side... because they knew a fully realized Tea Party would basically be a Democrats for a LOT of people who vote Democrat, like the Union Democrat..

It will be interesting to see how it evolves really.  As there are a lot of indicators saying the Tea Party will pretty much be sticking around for a while.

One amusing side event is the Republicans may be relegated to "minor party status" in colorado in the governor's race, because the OFFICIAL republican might get less then 10% of the vote, with the winning Govonor actually being from the Constitution Party.

That is very true. It's funny how lazy and dependent society has become. Everyone loves to hate the wealthy but they forget its the wealthy that pay the majority of taxes.

And that is a ridiculous that working 20 hours government benefits nets you as much money as working 28 hours and not getting benefits. What kind of BS is that?

I would honestly love to see taxes go away and have supporting poorer people be 100% optional.

I am not denying media such as CNN and MSNBC along with the early morning ABC and whatnot that are parents and grandparents watch has tried to pigeonhole the Tea Party movement as just another bunch of disgruntled Republicans who did not vote in 2006 or 2008, but got so riled up with Obama taking office they are politically charged more than ever. This is false because if you take the time to watch the videos of Tea Party rallies, most of those participating have had none to very little political participation in the past.

What I contend with is this notion that the Christian Right is not involved at all. When I see Tea Party rallies on Fox News where they have some fundamentalist ranting and raving about doing away with a large chunk of the 1st Amendment concerning the separation of church and state, then it ain't hard to see the Christian Right is involved.

The Tea Party is a movement. Thusforth, you will have stalled movements such as the Christian Right hanging on it's coat-tails in order to get publicity for relevancy.However, one bad apple in a barrel does not spoil the entire branch.

As a conservative Democrat, I sympathize a lot with the Tea Party movement. When it correctly brings up the issues of our children and great grandchildren paying for the deficits of the Baby Boomers and their bad choices, then I am 100% with them. However, when they endorse fringe right wing candidates I just cannot bring myself to vote the way they want me to because I have a defined set of political views, which are not apt to change with a swing in the national political mood.

That's... pretty dumb yeah... I mean give me welfare, here is how i'd set it up.

1)  After you go on unemployment, you have 3 months or so to find a job.

2) After 3 months you either work 20 hours a week for the government doing something like litter pickup, enevelop stuffing, sending emails, colecting census  info... whatever they need, government always needs more help with random stuff.  Maybe let the government bid for private jobs doing stuff like telemarketing.

Or, once every 2 years you can go to school for a semester or two and pick up training.

3) Repeat step 1... also actually try and place people in jobs.

It just... makes sense.  It keeps people in the habit of working, I know when i've gone long stretches without working I pretty much have to readjust everything to get back into it and dealing with near strangers on a day to day basis etc.

As for the Welfare thing, I don't see why it just can't be... If you make $200 dollars of non taxable welfare a week(making a number up)... welfare makes up the difference plus a bonus of half up to 150% of the number.

For example, say you get $200.  You find a job at a fast food restraunt that pays you $150, you can get $100 tax free.  So you get $250.

Basically until you make $300 with taxes taken out, you could get 100 from the goverment adding up to $300.

So the Welfare person working part time is getting paid $100 from the government and is making between 200-300

While the non working Welfare person is only getting 200.

The new system is something like you have to be in work or training within X number of months of recieving the benefit. I think its 3 months like what you're saying essentially.

But I totally agree there needs to be a good gap between what you can earn when you're on welfare and what you can earn coming off of it. Otherwise considering costs like transportation etc incurred by working people would not be better off if they came off of the welfare system. It is probably better to subsidise a job by say $100-150 from the government than it is to pay someone $200 to not work. You get far more productivity out of your population and the people employed remain employable unlike the situation where if you're out of work for more than 6 months your chances of actually finding a job become slim.

In my country the WINZ (work and income New Zealand) is actually employing private job agencies to find jobs for people. So arguably the best possible system is in place given the profit motive to encourage employment agencies would make them far more efficient than a government agency, especially one which tends to employ less skilled people.

Prisoners are warehoused and not broken into community, and set up to do stuff.  Welfare recipients are numbers that get funds, and are hoped to go away.  I happened to sit in social services today, applying for foodstamps.  A guy says he is thinking of going back to prison because probation hour demands prevent him from working sufficient hours.

The system sucks, end of story here.  I don't see compassion here, even if I get handouts.  Sheesh, I don't want handouts, I want work.