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Forums - Sales - Move to outsell kinect 2010?

thismeintiel on 22 October 2010
Seece said:
thismeintiel said:

It's so funny to see all the doubters spew nonsense like "Oh, but this is shipped not sold."  No, really?  When does any company tell you how many they have sold to customers unless it's something special, like Christmas sales?  Never.  So I guess when MS publishes its shipped numbers for Kinect, you guys won't be using them on the forums.  I doubt that very much.

And while I like VGC, there is no way they can even claim to be accurate with their Move sales.  The main reason is this is the first time they have tried tracking a piece of hardware that is seperate from the console.  I know ioi is using what he called "historical controller data" to determine how many are buying Move that already have a PS Eye, but it's still impossible to calculate since Move probably breaks any trends that were from previous generations.  There's just way too many variables when estimating these things.  Plus, as many have already stated, you can't go by Move required SW sales to see the units sold, as everyone who has bought Heavy Rain, RE5, MAG previously are potential customers.  Not to mention the 3 or 4 PSN games that are able to use the Move, as well.

Course we will, and there is nothing wrong with reporting SHIPPED figures, just like they'll be SHIPPED for Kinect and not sold like Microsoft will state. Most Microsoft fans here seem to get this .

I don't know.  You may want to read a few more of their comments before you start speaking for them.  Most seem to be just repeating "It's SHIPPED not SOLD!!"  Which I think most of us get, as that's what all companies do.  However, when Kinect launches I doubt many will still feel the same about shipped vs. sold as they do here.



 

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johnglen on 22 October 2010
thismeintiel said:
Seece said:
thismeintiel said:

It's so funny to see all the doubters spew nonsense like "Oh, but this is shipped not sold."  No, really?  When does any company tell you how many they have sold to customers unless it's something special, like Christmas sales?  Never.  So I guess when MS publishes its shipped numbers for Kinect, you guys won't be using them on the forums.  I doubt that very much.

And while I like VGC, there is no way they can even claim to be accurate with their Move sales.  The main reason is this is the first time they have tried tracking a piece of hardware that is seperate from the console.  I know ioi is using what he called "historical controller data" to determine how many are buying Move that already have a PS Eye, but it's still impossible to calculate since Move probably breaks any trends that were from previous generations.  There's just way too many variables when estimating these things.  Plus, as many have already stated, you can't go by Move required SW sales to see the units sold, as everyone who has bought Heavy Rain, RE5, MAG previously are potential customers.  Not to mention the 3 or 4 PSN games that are able to use the Move, as well.

Course we will, and there is nothing wrong with reporting SHIPPED figures, just like they'll be SHIPPED for Kinect and not sold like Microsoft will state. Most Microsoft fans here seem to get this .

I don't know.  You may want to read a few more of their comments before you start speaking for them.  Most seem to be just repeating "It's SHIPPED not SOLD!!"  Which I think most of us get, as that's what all companies do.  However, when Kinect launches I doubt many will still feel the same about shipped vs. sold as they do here.

First of all here we are talking about starter bundles plus move standalone controllers, at the very least (i am not saying about navigation controllers, i'll give sony the benefit of a doubt there) so a comparison with kinect is pointless.

Secondly i believe  there won't be any need to quote any MS shipped/sold numbers, the kinnect effect will be seen from day 1 in everything xbox360-related . You won't see sub-30k best selling games or sub-10k hardware bossts here ,believe me.



thismeintiel on 22 October 2010
johnglen said:
thismeintiel said:
Seece said:
thismeintiel said:

It's so funny to see all the doubters spew nonsense like "Oh, but this is shipped not sold."  No, really?  When does any company tell you how many they have sold to customers unless it's something special, like Christmas sales?  Never.  So I guess when MS publishes its shipped numbers for Kinect, you guys won't be using them on the forums.  I doubt that very much.

And while I like VGC, there is no way they can even claim to be accurate with their Move sales.  The main reason is this is the first time they have tried tracking a piece of hardware that is seperate from the console.  I know ioi is using what he called "historical controller data" to determine how many are buying Move that already have a PS Eye, but it's still impossible to calculate since Move probably breaks any trends that were from previous generations.  There's just way too many variables when estimating these things.  Plus, as many have already stated, you can't go by Move required SW sales to see the units sold, as everyone who has bought Heavy Rain, RE5, MAG previously are potential customers.  Not to mention the 3 or 4 PSN games that are able to use the Move, as well.

Course we will, and there is nothing wrong with reporting SHIPPED figures, just like they'll be SHIPPED for Kinect and not sold like Microsoft will state. Most Microsoft fans here seem to get this .

I don't know.  You may want to read a few more of their comments before you start speaking for them.  Most seem to be just repeating "It's SHIPPED not SOLD!!"  Which I think most of us get, as that's what all companies do.  However, when Kinect launches I doubt many will still feel the same about shipped vs. sold as they do here.

First of all here we are talking about starter bundles plus move standalone controllers, at the very least (i am not saying about navigation controllers, i'll give sony the benefit of a doubt there) so a comparison with kinect is pointless.

Secondly i believe  there won't be any need to quote any MS shipped/sold numbers, the kinnect effect will be seen from day 1 in everything xbox360-related . You won't see sub-30k best selling games or sub-10k hardware bossts here ,believe me.

Well, for your sake I hope your right.  You seem to putting a lot of faith in this one product.



 

DirtyP2002 on 22 October 2010
leo-j said:
Seece said:

Well, for starters they're shipped, and it doesn't sound like it'll be getting another big shipement in NA if the sold numbers are anything to go by.

A better comparison would be Sports Champions Vs. 80% of Kinect Adventure sales, or w/e ration ioi has SC at, at the time. So as we can see how many homes both controllers have penetrated.


seece it's beyond obvious that the move is undertracked here OR it's doing very well in smaller makets that vgchartz doesn't track... and not only that but the NPD never released any move figures, in fact it's far more likely pachter was quoting vgchartz, not NPD...

also, if they shipped 1 million units, and are upping production, it's likely that it's because the demand exceeds the supply (they said ) and the individual move controller is sold out

Numbers for PS Move in Semptember:

82k in US according to NPD
38k in UK according to Enterbrain / Chart-track)
60k in Italy according to  "Il Sole 24 ore"

about 500k worldwide accoridng to VGC.
*note* The hardware bump was VERY tiny for the PS3 overall, according to every tracking-service we have access to.

 

This is a serious question: Did all tracking-services failed? I doubt it. To me it looks like Sony counts every wand, every PSEye, every PS Move starter kit (obviously) and every Sub-controller as one PS Move sale. So when I buy 2 wands, and one sub I am the userbase of three.

If you have a better explanation please let me know.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

Nomad Blue on 22 October 2010
DirtyP2002 said:

Numbers for PS Move in Semptember:

82k in US according to NPD
38k in UK according to Enterbrain / Chart-track)
60k in Italy according to  "Il Sole 24 ore"

about 500k worldwide accoridng to VGC.
*note* The hardware bump was VERY tiny for the PS3 overall, according to every tracking-service we have access to.

 

This is a serious question: Did all tracking-services failed? I doubt it. To me it looks like Sony counts every wand, every PSEye, every PS Move starter kit (obviously) and every Sub-controller as one PS Move sale. So when I buy 2 wands, and one sub I am the userbase of three.

If you have a better explanation please let me know.


Who says you are a userbase of three?  I don't think anyone here, or Sony, says that 2.5m Move controllers sold = 2.5m userbase.  Or is this another manufactured stick to beat Sony with?



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Nomad Blue on 22 October 2010
johnglen said:

Honestly i think that after kinect launches all this pointless arguing will stop. The kinect effect will be so huge in everything (software sales , Xbox360 hardware sales e.t.c) that any comparison with move and any efforts trying to investigate sony's numbers (shipped, sold, what are these numbers starter bundles, standlone controllers e.t.c) will become pointless.

As far as this announcement go, is one million starter bundles standalome controllers in all America in over a month shipped to retailers that impressive ?? As far as software sales go we have NPD numbers for the 2 move biggest sellers (eyepet and SC) .

Well, most people seemed to find MS's announced target of 3M Kinect units by the end of the year impressive, so why not?



Jadedx on 22 October 2010



DirtyP2002 on 22 October 2010
Nomad Blue said:
DirtyP2002 said:

Numbers for PS Move in Semptember:

82k in US according to NPD
38k in UK according to Enterbrain / Chart-track)
60k in Italy according to  "Il Sole 24 ore"

about 500k worldwide accoridng to VGC.
*note* The hardware bump was VERY tiny for the PS3 overall, according to every tracking-service we have access to.

 

This is a serious question: Did all tracking-services failed? I doubt it. To me it looks like Sony counts every wand, every PSEye, every PS Move starter kit (obviously) and every Sub-controller as one PS Move sale. So when I buy 2 wands, and one sub I am the userbase of three.

If you have a better explanation please let me know.


Who says you are a userbase of three?  I don't think anyone here, or Sony, says that 2.5m Move controllers sold = 2.5m userbase.  Or is this another manufactured stick to beat Sony with?


Sony said they shipped 3 million PS Move. So 2 wands and one sub are three of those 3 million, even though just one guy uses it.

Look NPD reported 82k PS Move sold and Sony said they shipped 1 million in NA. Add canada and mexico with about 15% of the US numbers and you should be fine. So 100k units sold in NA according to NPD, analysts saying PS Move wold below expectations and Sony says "We sold 1 million units!".

This is not the regular shipped vs sold to customer debate. The first shipment Sony reported would be in stores for 10 months. This has to be Sony counting simply as much as possible (shipped, every piece of the bundle, the stuff I mentioned before). Software sales prove that perfectly.

Just a thought: If the PS move would continue to sell like Sony claims, it would outsell the iPad by a comfortable margin. I think that says it all.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

johnglen on 22 October 2010
Nomad Blue said:
johnglen said:

Honestly i think that after kinect launches all this pointless arguing will stop. The kinect effect will be so huge in everything (software sales , Xbox360 hardware sales e.t.c) that any comparison with move and any efforts trying to investigate sony's numbers (shipped, sold, what are these numbers starter bundles, standlone controllers e.t.c) will become pointless.

As far as this announcement go, is one million starter bundles standalome controllers in all America in over a month shipped to retailers that impressive ?? As far as software sales go we have NPD numbers for the 2 move biggest sellers (eyepet and SC) .

Well, most people seemed to find MS's announced target of 3M Kinect units by the end of the year impressive, so why not?

Because kinect is an 150$ system while the move numbers are that of many things combined (including a 30$ controller). If move had sold 1 million starter bundles and we were seeing good software sales that reflected the number of starter bundles sold then yes, the launch would have been succesfull. Righ now move is a non-factor , smple as that. It's a non-factor in software sales and it's a no-factor in ps3 hardware sales .

If kinect does't sell hundred of thousand of games in its first month and doesn't elevate the xbox360 November NPD number to AT LEAST 1 million its launch will have been a failure. I won't lowball my prediction to "save face " , like some people are doing, i've written again and again what i would consider a success for kinect.



Nomad Blue on 22 October 2010
DirtyP2002 said:

Sony said they shipped 3 million PS Move. So 2 wands and one sub are three of those 3 million, even though just one guy uses it.

I thought it was only 2.5M?  Some people only have one Move controller.

 

Look NPD reported 82k PS Move sold and Sony said they shipped 1 million in NA. Add canada and mexico with about 15% of the US numbers and you should be fine. So 100k units sold in NA according to NPD, analysts saying PS Move wold below expectations and Sony says "We sold 1 million units!".

I didn't think any Move numbers from September NPD have been leaked/announced?  Analysts (Pachter) said they were below expectations, and, as I'm sure you have read, he's retracted that and said that it has sold above expectations, and should sell several million this year.

 

This is not the regular shipped vs sold to customer debate. The first shipment Sony reported would be in stores for 10 months. This has to be Sony counting simply as much as possible (shipped, every piece of the bundle, the stuff I mentioned before). Software sales prove that perfectly.

In stores for 10 months based on your 100k figure though.  Not in reality.

 

Just a thought: If the PS move would continue to sell like Sony claims, it would outsell the iPad by a comfortable margin. I think that says it all.

It says nothing at all.  What do you think it says?

 

So Sony have increased production, twice, so they can stuff the channel even more and force retail to buy Move units and use up their storage and shelf space, which obviously they don't need at Xmas time, even though retail are already storing loads of unsold Move units already?  Ok then....