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Forums - Gaming - What Makes Xbox live worth it?

I see a few people mentioning features here and there, but ultimately you're not paying for features.  You get almost all the features of Live with a Silver account.

Ultimately, you're paying for online play. 

I have two problems with this concept:

1. It's unfair to consumers.

The majority of 360 games with online multiplayer use a P2P model, in which whoever hosts the game sets up their 360 as a temporary server, and all data for the game is sent back and forth between his and the other players' 360s.  To play a game you've already paid for online, you are using hardware that you've already paid for as a host and bandwidth that you've already been charged for to send and recieve data.  Even for games that use dedicated servers, server-related costs are handled by EA or whomever, not Microsoft.

2. It's unfair to developers.

Imagine you're a developer, and you just finished working on a game with a lengthy singleplayer and robust multiplayer modes.  Anybody who buys your game on PS3 or Steam can access all of the content from that game immediately.  As it should be, since they paid for it.  Paid you for it.  On 360, however, they would only be able to access a part of that game unless they're paying for Gold.  Microsoft is holding parts of other companies' products hostage to get people to pay for Live.

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Now one could argue that it costs Microsoft money to organize and track a peron's achivements and friends lists, as well as facilitate communication between said friends, and thus they have a right to charge to cover these costs.   I would agree in theory, but this is not what you're actually paying for.  These features are available to all for free through Silver.  You are paying for the "right" to play online. 



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reidlosdog said:
oniyide said:

@reidlosdog  where are you getting that not many PS3 users play online??? just curious because Uncharted 2 alone has thousand of players daily. and MW2 for that matter. No one is saying LIVE isnt better it is, just why does MS have to charge for playing a damn game online??? You honestly think they have to do this????


I think they did it since the Xbox, and had to do it then, but then realized people will actually pay for this, so continued on.

So no, they don't HAVE to do it, but they know many people are willing to pay for it.

I'm not exactly sure where I got this statistic cause I'm trying to find it on Vgchartz, cause I thought I got it from there, but still looking.

Here is a statment that can back my claim but not prove it for amount of hours played per week: Xbox 360 (7.3 hrs), PC (6.6 hrs) and PS3 (5.8 hrs).

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=389038

NPD Group's Online Gaming 2010 Report Is what I need to find, but it is proving difficult as they have made it so that only subscribers can get this information, as it is already old.



V:  And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night I sought to end that silence.

@makingmusic476  finally someone gets it, thanks for explaining it better than I could and i didnt even think of the dev part



reidlosdog said:
JOKA_ said:

I do think that XBox Live is better than PSN...but its not $50-60 (a year) better.

My PS3 recently broke, and I was contemplating buying a 360 instead (because of Reach), but after playing online for the past 4 years with no fees, I just can't bring myself to pay for essentially another game just to play online.

I only buy 2-3 games a year, so having to pay for Live would cut down the number of games I buy a year possibly in half.  I know thats probably not the usual for people here on this site, so maybe a lot of people can't sympathize with that.

My 2 cents.


Is it worth $25 a year?  that's... $2.08 a month.

I don't know exactly what the magic value is, but the lower the better ha. 



Platinums: Red Dead Redemption, Killzone 2, LittleBigPlanet, Terminator Salvation, Uncharted 1, inFamous Second Son, Rocket League

makingmusic476 said:

I see a few people mentioning features here and there, but ultimately you're not paying for features.  You get almost all the features of Live with a Silver account.

Ultimately, you're paying for online play. 

I have two problems with this concept:

1. It's unfair to consumers.

The majority of 360 games with online multiplayer use a P2P model, in which whoever hosts the game sets up their 360 as a temporary server, and all data for the game is sent back and forth between his and the other players' 360s.  To play a game you've already paid for online, you are using hardware that you've already paid for as a host and bandwidth that you've already been charged for to send and recieve data.  Even for games that use dedicated servers, server-related costs are handled by EA or whomever, not Microsoft.

2. It's unfair to developers.

Imagine you're a developer, and you just finished working on a game with a lengthy singleplayer and robust multiplayer modes.  Anybody who buys your game on PS3 or Steam can access all of the content from that game immediately.  As it should be, since they paid for it.  Paid you for it.  On 360, however, they would only be able to access a part of that game unless they're paying for Gold.  Microsoft is holding parts of other companies' products hostage to get people to pay for Live.

---

Now one could argue that it costs Microsoft money to organize and track a peron's achivements and friends lists, as well as facilitate communication between said friends, and thus they have a right to charge to cover these costs.   I would agree in theory, but this is not what you're actually paying for.  These features are available to all for free through Silver.  You are paying for the "right" to play online. 


Just to add onto this.  People get SO PISSED when they find out that DLC is actually just unlocking content on the disk they already bought.  This is pretty similar.  The online mode is there and ready for you to use...but first you have to pay extra on top of buying the disk to "unlock" it.



Platinums: Red Dead Redemption, Killzone 2, LittleBigPlanet, Terminator Salvation, Uncharted 1, inFamous Second Son, Rocket League

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Is Xbox Live worth it?  Is a gold nugget worth it?  If you were on an island and all you had was a gold bar, what would it be worth?  A cheeseburger?  If you had an original copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 (first Appearance of Spider-Man) and it was valued at $500,000 but you could only sell it for $3,000 then what is it worth?  It's worth what people are willing to pay for it.  Millions of people (myself included) are willing to pay $40-$60 a month for Live so apparently, we think it's worth it.  I've already given more than one features list in this thread.  If those don't do it for you, then there are other, cheaper, options.

Now somebody said that charging a users for Xbox Live isn't very customer friendly.  My mind exploded.  What!?  This isn't a charity.  It's a business.  Do you think that the PSN is free because Sony loves each and every one of you?  The PSN is free because that was a feature that Sony could boast over the 360.  It does what it needs to do and people appreciate it.  So I have phone lines that run to my house.  I have to "pay to unlock phone service".  Does the phone company say "Oh, the phone lines are there.  We should let d21lewis use the phone for free!"  No.  There job is to provide a service that makes them money.  Somebody has to maintain those lines.  Somebody has to make the service work.  That costs money.  Now I definitely have other options.  Cell phones, pay phones (if I could find one), smoke signals, etc.  but I have to pay for a house phone.  That's the way it works.

Go back to the days of the Xbox.  I didn't buy an Xbox.  The games didn't appeal to me.  The controller didn't feel right in my hand.  You had to buy a remote for it to even play DVDs.  The thing looked horrible.  Microsoft sold that console at a loss (about $100 a system if memory serves).  Were they being kind to gamers then?  And in those days, Xbox Live cost about $50 a year.  Look at the transition from those days to now.  The service has grown and grown to encompass more and more and the cost (until earlier this year) stayed the same despite tons and tons of improvements.  I'm still not sure if MS is making a profit on games.  The BILLION dollars spent trying to fix the RRoD and the costs of R&D, maintaining and improving the service, and other variables must cost a ton.  Xbox Live is a service that is generally accepted as the best and the consumers apparently don't mind paying for such a service.  What makes it better?  Like I said, I've already posted two lists.  Why do some of you not want Microsoft to make money?  Because Sony tried (and regrets, I'm sure) providing it for free?  Because the infrastructure of PC gaming is different?

At the end of the day, it's business.  It's $60 a year.  It's $5 a month.  After I finish this post, I'm about to go spend that much money for dinner.  One meal that will probably last about 45 minutes.  It's not that big a deal.  Depending on what you want out of it, Xbox Live is either a little better or a LOT better than its direct competition's online.  And that's all I have.  Later, dudes.



oniyide said:

@reidlogsog  i dont use that feature because i only care about gaming on my PS3. and no it is not that "horrific" but its not great and how do you know Kinect is so much better??? do you have one yet??? but thats not really the point I still dont see how it is worth 50 a year if the Kinect thing excites you and your willing to pay for that then by all means go ahead. I dont use webcam on my PS3 because I dont care about stuff like that so paying for that feature is a no-no for me. i only wanna play the occasional online game, nothing else dont wanna talk to some jacksass playing MW2 while im playing SSF4 i dont want netflix, facebook, twitter or any of that crap

@kimsk112 no it isnt but thats ok playing games online is still free thats all that matters IMO

@richardhutnik   you get to play all the demos on PSN also last I checked, can you tell me a game recently thats come out that you cant play a demo for??? im being serious, i dont download demos so i could be wrong

Ok, you can argue a point about the likes of large commercial titles, that sell at the the likes of Game Stop, but how many PS3 downloadable games have demos for them, unless you go plus?  Could I, for example, get a demo for Super Star Dust, or the Quest for Booty?  Was there a demo for Gran Turismo Prologue?  Maybe I am missing something, but I know I would of downloaded a bunch more content to try if it were available.

The thing on the 360 is that about everything gets a demo for it.   My understanding is that Sony charges people who produce content a fee for how much their content is downloaded.  There is a reason they went with Plus, and that was to pay for the bandwidth involved with the downloading of content.



Arguing whether Xbox live is worth the cost will not accomplish much because there are many reasons why some choose to pay or don't.  For some, Gears of War and/or Halo justify the cost of Xbox Live.  For others, cross game chat and a smooth interface justify the cost and for others the bells and whistles justify the cost.  But if somebody doesn't play online then the cost will never be worth it to them, no matter how many features it has so they will argue that it isn't worth it even though they would never use it if it was free.  Then there are people that, to them, $60 is nothing and even if they rarely use Xbox Live, they will buy it anyway. 

The bottom line is that some people think Live is worth the cost for varying reasons and you'll never change their minds and vice versa.  The worth of Xbox Live is relative to an individual.

P.S.  One advantage of the pay system is that MS has the incentive and resources to keep making Live better without fear of losing money on implementing a new feature.  Whether that makes it worth it to you is is relative to you.



SpartenOmega117 said:
dahuman said:

You know, most people have computers that can do what live does better for free. consoles are for gaming, like hell if I'm going to watch that crap ass encoded Netflix for money or use Last.FM when Shoutcast is a better way to go (there is an app for that too, <3 smart phones, I use Shoutcast on the road as my primary music source.)

Those live features can be done in a simple web browser and there is nothing like dev IRC sessions or simply go straight to their forums. You don't even need a gaming machine to do all those and who the hell has internet and no computer? Nobody gets internet just for a console or 2 unless the person is obsolutely retarded.

Live has xchat which is really why it's better than PSN, it's definitely not worth the 50-60 bucks you pay a year, and on the flip side, no xchat on PSN but you don't have to pay a dime to play games online, which is actually a much better value than xchat for that amount of money.

I have consoles for games, games, GAMES! It's a no shit that the PS3 is a better value when it comes to pure gaming. Not to mention that the supreme VoIP app right now is Mumble, nothing on consoles can even touch that thing, no other VoIP in the world is better than Mumble for gaming atm, and that's free too.

this

3rded. 



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Ok, let me ask which system has the superior experience for people who don't play online, Live Silver or the Playstation Netwok?  If you don't play online, which one is superior in your assessment?