lol. Thus atheist has a subsitution for god//religion yet at the end the results are the same. An atheist god can be anything from money to sport idol or  even themselves.

 It's not the tags people wear  (religious,atheist,etc) than matter but their actions.

  I agree people do not kill in the name of atheism because atheism is a "nothing" just like people don't kill over "Monoploy" money.

There is no depths to the amount of horrors that manifest themselves on the part of those who face what they consider to be great evil.  Considering his view of God and religion, it is no surprise why he wants all of it wiped off the face of the earth.

Well, that's kind of my point, religion exists also outside the ancient books and mystical beliefs, people can worship concrete things and abstract things, like money and power, and they become religious leaders with people following them, Hitler was worshipped in Germany, so was Stallin in the USSR, and Kim-Jong-iL in North Korea is a great current example of this.

On the not-violent side In Brasil they have a church of football, in Argentina Maradona has its own religion, hell, in the US Tim Buckley did some cartoon strips about the main character founding "The church of gaming" and it got followers.

They all have in common that they're not really atheists, but they don't have the same agenda.

I consider myself more of an agnostic, i say simply "i don't know" to the questions that we can't answer now. 

HEY EVERYONE, LET'S POST IN ANOTHER NUMONEX TROLL THREAD AND GET IT PAST 100 POSTS!!! THAT'LL SHOW HIM!

Just a point. He clearly thinks religion should be discussed, argued over, critisized and separated from the state. He has never advocated killing anyone and has opposed calls to banning the Burqa for example. So Dawkins clearly doesn't think people should be murdered if they're religious, and he also doesn't think people should not be allowed to have a religion.

Infact one of his friends Daniel Dennett (and I think from an interview Dawkins supported this) called for comparative religious education at schools. Dawkins has also said the Bible should be taught because its a neccesary book to understand English history and literature.

@umos-cmos:

Why shouldn't I support my beliefs by voting for legislation that I agree with?  That would make my belief system pretty pointless if I spoke one way and acted another.  Why are you bashing my freedom to not support gay marriage?  You are being the oppressive one.  Because you think they should have the right?  You are entitled to have that belief.  That's what makes America great.  It was the majority of the vote of the state of California that was the difference.

You have no right to tell other people whether they can or can't get married. What you don't understand is that your religious beleifs are personal and only concer yourself. If you don't agree with same sex marriage then don't marry someone of the same sex. Other people marrying someone of the same sex doesn't concern you. How can you call me oppressive when you're the one forcing others to follow your beleifs? And America surely isn't great if it allows the majority to surpress minorities.

What in my post led you to belive that I have contempt for gays?  They have every right to fight for their beliefs just as I do.  My belief that they should not be able to marry has nothing to do with bigotry or hate.  The Bible does state that Homosexuality is an abomination before the Lord.  He destroyed 2 cities with that being one of the main reasons.  God sets the "standards" you want to argue about.  My religion does not.  I don't know whether you believe in a God or not, but if you don't than everything I just said will mean nothing to you.  I just want you to at least know the facts.  Please do not put words in our mouths.

You support oppressive laws that force others to follow your religious beleifs. Your beleifs have everything to do with bigotry and hate. I don't know how you say you don't hate gays when you do everything you can to control their personal lives and to force them to follow the "morality" prescribed by your religion. You hold no respect for freedom of religion or the separation between Church and State.

@mrstickball:

Not all Christians or religious support anti-gay legislation. Heck, there are 3-4 denomiations that have homosexual pastors and layity. So to pidgeonhole all religious people as having an anti-gay bias is a very uninformed opinion, and you are no worse than those to demean.

The majority do (at least in my country). And with things like Prop 8 passing over there in teh US, I'd say things aren't any different there either. I'm not pidgeonholing anyone. Not to mention that the religion itself considers gays an "abomination". IF you don't beleive that you might as well not even call yourself a Christian.

Again, pidgeonholding 2 billion people because of the comments of a few thousand isn't the best way to make your case. I'm a fundementalist Christian, but support gay marriage, and would gladly vote for whatever legislation arises to support it. Yes, the majority are against it, but fewer are against it in a way tha they'd put laws to hurt them.

Again, not pidgeonholing. You are part of a minority of Christians. Trust me on that one.

No offence but what oppressive law forces you to denounce your faith? Which oppressive law forces you to convert to Christianity?

Their are more reasons than religion to denounce gay marriage. Think of the children for example, Gay couples don't want to just have recognition. Many want children, teaching those children to be gay which many homosexual couples do is wrong.

Here in Canada our school system was forced to carry books about homosexuality in kindergarten. The books with a mommy and a daddy had to be removed or marginalized so that books with kids having two daddies or two mommy's were introduced to the children. High school corriculm has changed so much that when I was in grade 11, it was put in place that grade ten students had to watch Broke Back Mountain to help them better understand homosexuals. I never had to watch it but later on tons of homosexual education classes were introduced into Sex ed, talking about how to have anal sex and such.

Many people aren't religious biggots they just have the opinion that homosexuality is not natural. I highly doubt the majority of California is Christian? They are just the most vocal because they want to defend their beliefs.

So in Canada children from Kindergarten onwards get brainwashed to think homosexuality is normal and natural. These kids get taught its cool.

You talk about brainwashing in other threads and imposing Christian beliefs on you. While you prupose to do the exact same thing to Christians, Muslims , Jews and any other religion that disagrees with your theology.

Canada, USA, Mexico we are democracies. In a democratic society people have the right to practice their sexuality in private any way they want. But to impose the minority beliefs on the majority is not democratic. No we should not persecute the minority but in a democratic society their views should not be imposed on the majority!

@Joelcool7:

No offence but what oppressive law forces you to denounce your faith? Which oppressive law forces you to convert to Christianity?

When Christians are passing laws forcing others to conform to their religious mores (like forbidding same sex marriage) they're forcing their religious beliefs on others.

Their are more reasons than religion to denounce gay marriage. Think of the children for example, Gay couples don't want to just have recognition. Many want children, teaching those children to be gay which many homosexual couples do is wrong.

What? First of all children have nothing to do with the marriage issue (you don't have to be married to have kids or adopt kids), so there's no point in you bringing it up. Second, you can't "teach" anyone to be gay or straight or any other sexual orientation. You don't seem to know much about sexual orientation. Seriosuly, what homophobic propaganda are you reading?

Many people aren't religious biggots they just have the opinion that homosexuality is not natural.

You can hold whatever opinion you want to, but that doesn't mean it has any grounds in reality.

So in Canada children from Kindergarten onwards get brainwashed to think homosexuality is normal and natural. These kids get taught its cool.

Considering all the kids who get bullied and commit suicide for being gay or being percieved as being gay, I doubt that most kids think homosexuality is "cool". And homosexuality IS normal and natural, so I don't see those kids being "brainwashed" with anyhing other than the truth. This is yet again another fact that contradicts your religion. Deal with it!

But to impose the minority beliefs on the majority is not democratic. No we should not persecute the minority but in a democratic society their views should not be imposed on the majority!

What views are impossed? Marriage is a private thing. It doesn't concern you that a gay coupld wanbt to get married. It's not any of your business. No one is imposing any minority beleifs on a majority, because whether gays marry or not is their business, not the majority's. However the Chrisitan majority are imposing their beleifs on gays by forbiddign them to marry, in other words by trying to control other people's lives. In a Democracy minority's must be protected from the tyranny of the majority.

Well for your information I know two friends who are homosexual by choice and not naturally. Both grew up straight and I know they were straight because I was pretty tight with them, they were even more straight then me they had posters all over their walls of half naked chicks and porno's under their beds they were as straight as they come. But both of them were emotional people and had mostly girls as friends. One as a kid was dressed in a dress by his mom and dad because they wanted a girl not a boy. Anyways long story short during their late teen years both claimed to be gay.I also know various Bi-Sexuals.

When I refered to the children I wasn't only refering to adoptions but also what the homosexual rights groups are doing in our schools (Here in Canada). Also note that your suicides and such that you talk about are in America and possibly other countries. Here in Canada I have known many homosexuals and bi-sexuals in my schools and they were not bullied. yes people got called a fag but it really had nothing to do with sexual orientation I got called a fag almost daily.

The most recent suicide with the boy who's sex was leaked onto the internet and he was publicly ridiculed. If a sex tape of me doing a girl got leaked onto the internet and everybody made fun of me I'd be pretty depressed too. Thats not so much a homosexual issue as a normal human issue. Think of how many straight people commit suicide, think Columbine for example those were straight boys who were bullied to the point they shot up their school, I know of a suicide in my school district about a kid who was bullied in school but he was straight so it was only a local story it never made the international news but if he was gay I bet it would have because everyone cares when a gay guy dies.

In my school I got invited by Catholics none the less to a bi-sexual orgy party. These were catholics which stunned me the most. Fact is Homosexuals where I live get treated like kings, they don't have to listen to laws and what ever they want they just have to campaign a bit and they get it.

A group of about 60-gay rights activists lined up outside my church calling us hate criminals. It was radiculous they called the Bible hate material. I went outside and offered to take a man to lunch and he freaked calling me a homophobe for believing in the Bible.

Civil servennts and some pastors are forced in many parts if not all of Canada to marry gay couples regardless of their religious beliefs. I know a civil servent who actually got fired for refusing and a Pastor who was pretty much forcedto marry a gay couple.

I got bullied for going to Bible Study at my school and before I graduated it got shut down. Everywhere I go I am ridaculed for my faith and I live in the Bible Belt of Canada. I tried commiting suicide as a kid too from being bullied so I'm sympathetic to those in that situation but here in Canada the homosexual movement imposes its beliefs on others, not the other way around.