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Forums - PC - The Semi Official VGChartz Minecraft Thread

Final-Fan said:

While exploring the large cave system under the spawn point, I stumbled on some extremely weird areas, that seemed to be constructed but were very pointless (at first I thought it was a dungeon that somehow glitched out).  Then I found out it was an apparently unfinished and abandoned section of Ben's underground complex. 

The point of this story is that I was humbled by the reminder of how pitifully simple my rail system is compared to his opulent subway.  And yet, where does his go?  What does it actually connect?  I'll be investigating this and more, but I've already found out one thing:  he appears to have been using the "glitchy carts moving in circles at warp 9" which is a poor solution even if not for the fact it slows down the server. 

Questions on my mind: 
--Extent and current state (functionality, repair) of Ben's system (I will be checking this out)
--Ditto, wick's line
--Any other railways already in place?
--The actual demand for a substantial rail system
--Related:  will traffic justify unidirectional track (two one way lines) instead of "one line, one user"? 

I will be researching rail station mechanisms -- I already have an idea for a potential fix for my earlier inability to automate the stop.  But although I'd probably be willing to undertake construction of a "modest" line (nothing like the "construction per meter traveled" that Ben has) I pretty much blew my meager stockpile of iron on what I've already made.  If I were to do this, should I rely on donations or "mod magic"?  Or just not do it unless I can personally pony up the resources? 

Also, do people have objections to the elevated train style (i.e. they'd like them underground out of sight)? 

thats my subway .... ben only has one tunnel, vonboy built a 1 by 2 walk way above the subway system i built that connects joes, bens, and myplace (grand central)and its a loop

bens line is incomplete he built the lineout that way, the line i was working on for him is bricked off, thats probably what you dropped into

curently the loop is incomplete i stopped work on it, out in wicks direction, i may start back up the work again

there were to be 4 tunnels exiting out of my place

have been having issues with the carts down there, powered carts were not working right, i may have to remove the first layer of glass, i did some testing on this though it has not been finnished, the switching  at intersections has been abandoned for now, never could get it to work right



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog

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OK, I haven't fully explored the functionality of hansrotec's subway system, but obviously it's way prettier than mine could ever be. 

I'm waffling between elevated and subway.

IMPORTANT:  I've made a functional mock-up of my proposed station design on Farm Island.  I invite you to come check it out.  It's TOTALLY DIFFERENT from anything I've seen on YouTube, which mainly revolve around either "train station with tracks to W, X, Y, and Z" or "subway station where you hop onto rails going left or right".  My design is a little like the subway ones, but I will talk about this more at the end of the post. 

If you have any constructive criticism, I'd be happy to hear it. 

My model is more like "interstate highway exits".  There's a main highway (with track running each direction) and you hit a stop where you are faced with two levers and a button. 

LEVER ONE:   "KEEP GOING / GO RIGHT" ("right" from the perspective of someone approaching the highway as you would in the USA, traffic on the right side); "TURN AROUND / GO LEFT" (someone on the highway can make a U-turn here, or someone entering the highway can make a left turn instead of a right). 

LEVER TWO:  "KEEP GOING" (or, getting on the highway); "GET OFF (Test Station)".  Instead of "Get Off", I could make room for a longer station name. 

BUTTON:  "GO BABY GO"  You are launched and directed according to the choices you have made. 

I'd like to know what people think of this design. 

Similarities/differences between my design and subway-style.  In both cases, there is separated track going each direction, with a stop.  However, every subway design I have seen either makes you stop and get out at each station, then get back in; or doesn't stop at all and you have to jump out.  Also, the stop takes place in the station itself.  AND, importantly for a performance-sensitive server, they use lots and lots of boosters going back and forth just waiting for input.  (Actually, I can't think of any Youtube station design I've seen, train- or subway-style, that doesn't do this.) 

In my design, you don't ever leave the car while you're on the "highway" -- and when you choose to make an exit, it takes you away to a separate terminal stop.  Also, importantly for multiplayer, none of my boosters are "active"; they only run while people are actually using them. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Some added notes: 

I envision the actual entry/exit point at the destination to be just like the one at the spawn point. 

P.S.  I would have absolutely no objection to this system being implemented on hansrotec's rail if he wants to.  Although it may be too much work extending his style of construction out to service certain players.  I'm sure we could also rig an interchange to hook up his system with another. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

I have no objections to your system, and would work to help cut new tunnels. from my most recent testing in the tunnels the layer of glass closest to the tracks may have to be removed. I need another round of testing to see if this is still the case. really ill help our on any line (above or below) that needs to be built, i do like the subway for not encroaching on the skyline and leaving more ground level space to build upon.

my tunnel system was designed so it could be easily widened or raised in height without too much well 2 by 2 in each direction



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog

goddog said:

I have no objections to your system, and would work to help cut new tunnels. from my most recent testing in the tunnels the layer of glass closest to the tracks may have to be removed. I need another round of testing to see if this is still the case. really ill help our on any line (above or below) that needs to be built, i do like the subway for not encroaching on the skyline and leaving more ground level space to build upon.

my tunnel system was designed so it could be easily widened or raised in height without too much well 2 by 2 in each direction

Your tunnels are awesome, but they might be a bit TOO deep.  Aside from the obvious Slime problem, I'll have to take a ride down there to see the actual travel time going up and down. 

It would really suck to abandon them though. 

Also, I noticed that the "Keep Going/Turn Around" instructions only are valid from one direction (obviously).  I'd have to either change the signage to "Turn Right to Station X" / "Turn Left to Station Z", or construct a complete mirror of every "exit" for travelers going the other direction. 

However appealing the clarity of "Keep Going/Turn Around" instructions, I shudder at the thought of doubling the construction size/resources just for that reason alone, unless there was a very strong majority preferring that option. 

I don't think the actual highway part of the line would be too unsightly, but the huge "boxes" that would be necessary at every stop would probably be kind of annoying to have in the sky.  It's too bad, too, because the view is really pretty good up there.  It would have been something to look at while you were riding.  Ah well.  I guess that's why you built your awesome system, to have something to admire while you're riding



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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It's come to my attention that my system does not allow for high traffic situations -- i.e., if someone is at a stop figuring out where they want to go, and another person comes up behind him, there is no mechanism to deal with this:  they would simply rear-end you. 

I cannot think of a way off the top of my head to make my "highway exit" system tolerant of high traffic and still satisfy my goal of "never leave the cart until the destination", which will also be fast and compact (as it would have to be, as far as I'm concerned, with a station at every exit). 

I want opinions:  is there likely to be enough traffic to make this something we need to worry about? 

Here is a video of a more traffic-tolerant system that also uses door boosters but which makes you get out of the cart:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUuUCmlDzpY

And if we were going to go absolutely nuts, here is an awe-inspiring setup.  This is clearly a design meant for satisfying very high traffic.  It's worth watching just to admire these guys.  I've seen several videos of grandiose station setups but nothing beats these guys IMO, and as they say it's "advanced but compact". 

They also use door boosters, to the exclusion of "always on" booster systems as far as I can tell, and this alone makes them unique of the large scale examples I've seen. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

OK, it seems to me that it should be possible to use an RS NOR device with a couple lot of pressure plates to just send people away.  I haven't been able to master getting carts to have enough velocity to ride over presure plates, maybe you need a booster to drag the cart over it...

Anyway it would just tell the track to send people on without giving them a chance to exit.  But there would have to be pressure plates for each direction of traffic as well as the track coming from the stop itself.  So I'd still like to know if this safety mechanism is actually called for. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:

OK, it seems to me that it should be possible to use an RS NOR device with a couple lot of pressure plates to just send people away.  I haven't been able to master getting carts to have enough velocity to ride over presure plates, maybe you need a booster to drag the cart over it...

Anyway it would just tell the track to send people on without giving them a chance to exit.  But there would have to be pressure plates for each direction of traffic as well as the track coming from the stop itself.  So I'd still like to know if this safety mechanism is actually called for. 


wow thats well thought out but i can not imagine that much load, i mean we rarely ever have 6 people on the server at the same time, given two main lines that branch to each house with sub lines, i just could not se it, or are you looking into more just general stations?

 

and yes i tried to make it nicer to look at, i never filled the caves in though so people could explore those. laval is a pain at its current level, but not much else... and there has to be a way to drive the blobs away



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog

also though i really hate using it, tunneling could be sped along with tnt, then cleaning up the explosions, its far too deep to do any real damage, cut two parralel tunnels and fill them with a line of tnt each should do it, though we may have to test it, i have an area already where that can be done

 

it was all originaly cut with stone & ore picks .... never found any dimond down there



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog

goddog said:
Final-Fan said:

OK, it seems to me that it should be possible to use an RS NOR device with a couple lot of pressure plates to just send people away.  I haven't been able to master getting carts to have enough velocity to ride over presure plates, maybe you need a booster to drag the cart over it...

Anyway it would just tell the track to send people on without giving them a chance to exit.  But there would have to be pressure plates for each direction of traffic as well as the track coming from the stop itself.  So I'd still like to know if this safety mechanism is actually called for. 

wow thats well thought out but i can not imagine that much load, i mean we rarely ever have 6 people on the server at the same time, given two main lines that branch to each house with sub lines, i just could not se it, or are you looking into more just general stations?

and yes i tried to make it nicer to look at, i never filled the caves in though so people could explore those. laval is a pain at its current level, but not much else... and there has to be a way to drive the blobs away

Joe said as much, and with a server population of like 9 or 10 I agree. 

The line will as I currently conceive it be a main line consisting of two one-way rails like a highway with "exit stations" where you can continue on, or turn around and go the opposite direction on the main line, or get off to the "exit line" which could go wherever.  While a person is deciding where to go, the system is vulnerable because if someone else enters the "exit station" then they will just rear end the guy deciding.  With such a low population I can't see it as an issue worth designing around. 

As for slimes, I understand that they spawn in light AND darkness, literally anywhere in the bottom 16 layers where there is sufficient room to spawn in.  And I have personally seen the small ones sitting in lava burning for minutes without dying, and I've hit them without effect.  The bigger ones, the ones that can hurt you, will die, but I think the tiny ones are somehow invincible.  It's going to be a major problem IMO for a subway built at your level.

P.S.  "exit station" and "exit line" are terms I just made up for the purpose of this post, and should not be considered terminology that I am wedded to or that has any special meaning whatsoever. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!