Yup, seems like the reasons behind the lack of support from third party developers have more to do about NIntendo manufacturing politics, acording to Alchemist (Galgun Xbox360) boss, wonder if NIntendo'll revist this after the new deal in the 3DS and third parties.

1. Repeat manufacture starts from X thousand units.
Say your game is more popular than you expected (or you were a little too "safe" with first run numbers). If you decide to manufacture more copies, Nintendo says you must start with X thousand (the X is secret because of NDA). Other hardware manufacturers start at 100. There's a massive risk involved for smaller publishers, in particular, here.

2. Manufacture turnaround time is 3-4 weeks.
In the case of DS games, it takes Nintendo 3-4 weeks to manufacture a second run of carts. Other hardware manufacturers have a one week turnaround. When your game is selling like hot cakes, you can understand the need to get extra units out quickly. Nintendo, apparently, doesn't.

3. Manufacturing costs have to be paid 100% upfront
Other hardware manufacturers are not mentioned here, but the example is given that "let's say it costs 1000 yen per unit to manufacture" (actual cost depends on cart size), and if a game is expected to be a big hit and sell 1 million units, that's 1 billion yen that has to be paid upfront. That's a ridiculous amount and causes a bit of a headache as far as company capital goes. He suggests reducing it to 1/3 upfront payment, to ease the problem.

4. Nintendo could try to help with TV advertising
Right now, Nintendo is sponsoring a lot of TV shows via advertising. It would be a good opportunity for Nintendo to sub-let advertising to third parties during these programmes.

He mentions the last point is really a personal request, but the others are serious issues.

Original note

http://www.alchemist-net.co.jp/nikki/?p=2741

Translation from GAF

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=408920

Those are definitely real and legitimate problems, though I have to wonder how much manufacturing cost has to be paid up front for the other companies.

These just make sense for smaller developers... and the smaller developers have given the Wii and DS better support than the larger developers.

I'm sure the cost of developing HD is more than these obstacles.  But maybe I'm wrong.  The turn around time is probably the most annoying.

OMG, Chinatown Wars flopped because of Nintendo D:

*looks at PSP version sales*

Oh forget it :P

3DS is a sign that the winds are changing, next nintendo platform won't leave Sony or Microsoft many time to react.

This is why Nintendo is profitable. Requiring the money up front, requiring a certain amount of copies be made. All ways of generating income. Smaller studios have WiiWare where they can produce their products and have them distributed. If you choose to go the other route you just need a big publisher.

Now how many indy games do you know of currently for sale on the 360/PS3? Are they in stock? Now if Microsoft and Sony followed Nintendo's example we would have heard of the title and it would be readily availible in our stores even if the game flopped.

Nintendo has always looked out for number one, its survival instincts. Maintaining constant profit is what Nintendo is most known for. Right now does Nintendo really need or have use for any studio that can only manufacture 100 copies and can't afford to support said software?

Third party publishers aren't really effected by these regulations, the only ones it hurts are small independants and they could always go to WiiWare!

Are you trying to defend that turnaround time? I don't think you can.

My thoughts from the other thread foolish ol' me just made:

What we see here really helps better explain why developers aren't always on friendly terms with the company.

Having to pay for an entire software run upfront seems like it could be very troublesome issue for smaller developers, particularly companies like NIS that are barely surviving from one game release to the next as it is.  Granted, it would normally be expected for a publisher to handle all of their own costs, but the implication is that Sony, Microsoft, and even Sega back in the day handle(d) this situation differently.

I thought it was for the controller... and its lack of buttons... Nintendos... aim towards the casual crowd which result in a mostly casual crowd and thus 3rd party games don't sell as well because they tend to do "hardcore" games.

Well thats my take on it....

Whether Im right or wrong it doent matter... I doubt Im wrong... but the fact remains that the Nintendo library does not enjoy 3rd party support like the twin HD's... and to most hardcore gamers that's a huge

DS killed Chinatown Wars. If it had been released on PSP first, it would have been a smashing success.