There are clearly others, yet none of them are on board either. And certainly there could be some upstart that does something good with motion controls, but as talent becomes an increasing premium in this industry those devs hold a lot of the cards.

As for your second point, I still have to ask how long we must wait. Motion has been around for 6 years now with a strong devoloper (nintendo) behind it, and still nothing. And I'm just asking for a game equal to standard controls, let alone surpassing them.

Well according to a lot of people, the Motion sports games do this. Sure you probably don't like sports games, but you asked for something. And it's just the beginning, since they were going on ground established in Wii Sports. Zelda will likely determine the direction for good sword controls.

I don't think there any future for motion gaming as far as making good games are concerned and there isn't going to be until people's and dev's attitude toward them change and the hardware reaches a level of precision provided by a standard controls, which is still a long way off. I wish I could share your optimism but I just don't see any change coming anytime soon. And if wiisports is the best game motion controls can do then I definitely don't want any part of it.

Again, your opinion is not enough. You don't have to like them, but don't think for a minute developers are going to give them up just because they don't please you.

Plus where did I write that Wii Sport was the best game motion controls can do? Look at my post again, and you'll see I state Wii Sports is the BASIS for the better controlled games. I mention whas ARE the better controlled games in the FIRST SENTENCE.

Yeah, I was using all caps, but the totall missing the context of what I wrote makes me wonder if you just skimmed that post.

For devlopers to give them up they would first have to adopt them. And the majority of them haven't with the number getting smaller at the top level of quality devs. As for the wii sports, I assumed thats what you meant by motion sports- but I guess you mean sport champions and resort and that stuff. Ill read more carefully next time, but those still aren't very impressive games. And though it is just my opinion, I'm fortunate enough for the vast majority of devs to share that same opinion.

1. I didn't mean those two games either. There were a couple of tennis games, and EA's PGA games, for one, that are noted to have better controls than with buttons (sales are bad for PGA, but it got dragged down by the Tiger Woods scandal).

2. That list doesn't say "vast majority" to me. And you're acting like it's a good thing for developers to decide they are above the tastes of gamers. This is a business, not an art studio.

1. Well, I would say they are in accord with gamers tastes. Motion gaming hasn't done a very good job of grabbing their attention.

2. You just opened up a whole new can of worms.

1. So you are claiming those that bought Wii Sport Resort in droves are not gamers. That is bull, especially since those other sports series were never that big even with gamepad controls.

2. Thinking gaming is supposed to be about what the customers want, not the developers, is a can of worms? How about that's what EVERY BUSINESS ON EARTH is like, and most of the developers you named even know that (Valve didn't make Steam solely for their own pleasure).

Heck, and you're wrong about those developers thinking they are above motion controls, since a lot have basically said they are good with current controls, not that they think they are inherently superior. It's more they don't have any ideas for killer motion control games than actively resisting it.

1. Watching one movie doesn't make you a movie buff, it may sound elitest but there is a certain level of dedication to the media to be considered a big fan.

2. I was actually thinking more along the lines of you opening up the video games aren't art debate. Though I do have to say that the interests of devs and gamers are usually quite similar. Its not like the games the studios I listed are bombing commercially or something.

3. I said they didn't support them with games, which is just as bad for motion gaming as If they actively resisted them. Either way motion gaming contiues to have bad games from second rate devs.

Forget everything I wrote since your first post.

Did you even read the OP?

You haven't posted a single thing relevant to the subjective of this thread. Hint, it's not about the worth of motion controls in general, and I've been waiting for you to actually get this around to the actual thread topic. Now I think you didn't even know what this thread was about when you came here.

If you had actually read the OP, you might know this is about directly addressing a problem with making good motion controls.

So drop this "I don't like it, so I want it do go away" line. Make your own thread if you want to do that. This is about making motion control better by notion at least one of the ways it differs from traditional controls and why it can't be shoehorned into that.