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Forums - General - Should NATO deploy troops in Mexico?

 

Should NATO deploy troops in Mexico?

Yes, end the drug war 72 60.50%
 
No, let the mexican's keep trying 46 38.66%
 
Total:118

What's NATO?Some brand of milk?



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I think people have pushed the child beating analogy well past its limits...



Rath said:

I think people have pushed the child beating analogy well past its limits...


i disagree.  i havent even discussed that i would use a stick so my hand wouldnt get sore.  or what sort of stick it might be.  maybe its a cane even!



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Beuli2 said:

What's NATO?Some brand of milk?




...Hmmm...I've been thinking about this...maybe the solution is to legalize drugs?

I don't get why they're illegal in the first place. Sure, they're not good for the people who consume them, but frankly cigarretes and alcohol (in large amounts) aren't either but they are legal. Think about it. What wrong does DRUGS do to society as a whole? Alcohol is legal but not everyone's drunk. Smoking is legal but not everyone is addicted to it. Why are drugs so special?

Even if you think drugs are reall bad things for people, they should be legal because they don't harm people other than the consumers. If they want to get high, it's their choice. If they want to lose their life on a drug, let them be. Banning drugs just makes it look like a desirable thing to do by the youngsters, provokes people to sell them illegally and causes the state to invest in a "war" they should not be making in the first place.



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SmoothCriminal said:
Beuli2 said:

What's NATO?Some brand of milk?


I'm serious. I'm not american to know it. (if it's an international evil organization, I haven't watched TV for real in months.)



Above: still the best game of the year.

TheLivingShadow said:

...Hmmm...I've been thinking about this...maybe the solution is to legalize drugs?

I don't get why they're illegal in the first place. Sure, they're not good for the people who consume them, but frankly cigarretes and alcohol (in large amounts) aren't either but they are legal. Think about it. What wrong does DRUGS do to society as a whole? Alcohol is legal but not everyone's drunk. Smoking is legal but not everyone is addicted to it. Why are drugs so special?

Even if you think drugs are reall bad things for people, they should be legal because they don't harm people other than the consumers. If they want to get high, it's their choice. If they want to lose their life on a drug, let them be. Banning drugs just makes it look like a desirable thing to do by the youngsters, provokes people to sell them illegally and causes the state to invest in a "war" they should not be making in the first place

Two main reasons in my opinion.

1) Damage to public health. Some drugs are far more damaging to health than either alcohol or tobacco and far more addictive. Heroin is a good example. You can say 'oh they're only damaging themselves' but in reality its the tax payer that foots the bill for their healthcare.

2) Danger to society. Some drugs, for example P (crystal meth) can basically make people into psychopaths. There was a guy in NZ who took a katana to peoples hands while on P...

 

Of course neither of those reasons really cover banning marijuana or ecstacy...



pariz said:
Rath said:

 

@Pariz. Nothing has changed in Colombia? So much has changed, the state was in an existential crisis. It now has much firmer authority and even the main rebel group, FARC, is being severely beaten now. Also do you really think it's that easy to stop drug smuggling? Trust me, countries have and are trying.

You are right on each and every point. The thing is that I cannot but center my atention on the fact that US military presence persues not only non specifically to fight down the FARC. Not only that: it helps this rebel groups (which in most cases are anti-colonialism of any type) to gain more support from citizenship.


Yes the US military intervention in Columbia has turned alot of people into America haters. But that sentiment is largely outside Columbia itself. I have met pastors and missionaries who have gone to Columbia and they have told me that their is a very large support group for getting rid of the FARC and the people of Columbia love them.

Frankly who cares what some other countries think of North American's when your helping people. Like standing up to a popular bully, yes the kid is popular and when you stick up for the nerd you may not really be appretiated by the popular persons friends. But the victims sure love you and you show everyone else that you stick up for your ideals.

Hugo Chavez and the other anti-american basterds wouldn't really care if America didn't get involved. They would still find some reason to bash North America, just look at their support of Iran due to the Iraq war. Do you honestly believe that if North American countries and western european countries just stood back and let everything spiral out of control that they would be anymore loved by the rest of the world?

Oh and yes the US is only out to serve its interests but can you honestly name a single country that does not value its own interests more then the rest of the world?

Beuli2 said:

What's NATO?Some brand of milk?



Nato is the North Atlantic Treaty Organistation. Started by United States, Canada, Portugal, Italy, Norway, Denmark and Iceland. Its grown to include many other western nations. Origionally it was founded as a military organisation to prevent any more world wars. Basically it was founded so that in the case of any future conflicts North America, Western Europe parts of the Middle East South America. That all these countries would stand united.

Basically if any of the Nato countries are attacked it is an attack on all of them. They act to defend their nations interests and protect democracy and our ways of life.

You really should know this stuff. It was a major part of my high school social studies class, even alot of talk about it in University.



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TheLivingShadow said:

...Hmmm...I've been thinking about this...maybe the solution is to legalize drugs?

I don't get why they're illegal in the first place. Sure, they're not good for the people who consume them, but frankly cigarretes and alcohol (in large amounts) aren't either but they are legal. Think about it. What wrong does DRUGS do to society as a whole? Alcohol is legal but not everyone's drunk. Smoking is legal but not everyone is addicted to it. Why are drugs so special?

Even if you think drugs are reall bad things for people, they should be legal because they don't harm people other than the consumers. If they want to get high, it's their choice. If they want to lose their life on a drug, let them be. Banning drugs just makes it look like a desirable thing to do by the youngsters, provokes people to sell them illegally and causes the state to invest in a "war" they should not be making in the first place.

It is possible to consume alcohol at quantities with no health consequences and no serious psychological impact.

This isn't possible with most of the banned drugs, and indeed tobacco. The safe level is zero, there is no possible benefit to the user, and the cost to society in missed work hours, behaviour under the influence of drugs and healthcare (especially in socialised-heathcare countries) is very large.

They are harming many other people than the consumer, and there is no level of drug-taking that doesn't.

Tobacco should be classed with the most serious drugs we have based on the health risk. Only reason it isn't is lack of political will.



Joelcool7 said:
pariz said:
Rath said:

 

@Pariz. Nothing has changed in Colombia? So much has changed, the state was in an existential crisis. It now has much firmer authority and even the main rebel group, FARC, is being severely beaten now. Also do you really think it's that easy to stop drug smuggling? Trust me, countries have and are trying.

You are right on each and every point. The thing is that I cannot but center my atention on the fact that US military presence persues not only non specifically to fight down the FARC. Not only that: it helps this rebel groups (which in most cases are anti-colonialism of any type) to gain more support from citizenship.


Yes the US military intervention in Columbia has turned alot of people into America haters. But that sentiment is largely outside Columbia itself. I have met pastors and missionaries who have gone to Columbia and they have told me that their is a very large support group for getting rid of the FARC and the people of Columbia love them.

Frankly who cares what some other countries think of North American's when your helping people. Like standing up to a popular bully, yes the kid is popular and when you stick up for the nerd you may not really be appretiated by the popular persons friends. But the victims sure love you and you show everyone else that you stick up for your ideals.

Hugo Chavez and the other anti-american basterds wouldn't really care if America didn't get involved. They would still find some reason to bash North America, just look at their support of Iran due to the Iraq war. Do you honestly believe that if North American countries and western european countries just stood back and let everything spiral out of control that they would be anymore loved by the rest of the world?

Oh and yes the US is only out to serve its interests but can you honestly name a single country that does not value its own interests more then the rest of the world?


 

First of all, something that's necesary to clarify: political interests make a use of ideological speaches. I mistrust a polititian just as soon as he starts speaking, cause it is what he does to try to convince you that a certain course of action is good for you or good for your country or good for humanity when it is a fact that there are some benefits for himself that he's persuing. That's how politics work all around the world, if we don't agree on this, we won't agree on much.

First you talk about ideals (that's just what goverments use in their discourses and what may motivate lots of their citizenship, but not what's really going on) and later you make a statement in form of a question with which I agree: every country, what the... every entity tries to achieve their own interests, even when that's the well being of others.

Then you name Chavez. Chavez is not really representative of the anti american feeling all around Latin America. He's just a polititian making use of a discourse. Making a lot of use and abuse.

I can clearly see you know your stuff and you are well informed, but you should try harder to understand, from different sources, why this anti american feeling spreads all around the rest of America (the continent). You would find it is about ideals: search through history how many times the US acted on the soverign and inner political affairs of many countries, revoking presidents that were choosen legitimately and financing all kinds of anti governamental movements when suited. Try to find out what happened in the first half of XX century and you'll realise that with the right oriented parties and corrupted locals, USA, France and Spain fought for neo colonies in the Caribean and South America, which politically and formaly were independent, with their own flag and anthem, but economically were just colonies in which they secured really cheap raw or source materials.

The rest of the story till our days hasn't being different at all, just more sofisticated.