By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - What's your point of view in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bomb?

rocketpig said:
routsounmanman said:
mhsillen said:
routsounmanman said:

I can't believe what I'm hearing from some people! US went to war with Afghanistan and Iraq to "combat terrorism". With your logic, them nuking Los Angeles would have been a great resolve to end the war...

Seriously, nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki should be considered nothing less than terrorism and crimes of war, there's no spinning that.


oh bad usa bad

I'm japan was so Innocent

Do you know history? 

I never said the Japanese were good folks. Every member of the Axis, and many of the Allies actually went on a killing spree during WW2, civilians included. You just can't claim that the US went on a crusade and the bombing was justifiable, no way.

They were crimes of war, end of story.

Then everyone in WWII was guilty of crimes of war. Dresden, London, Leningrad, Tokyo, Nanking, continue ad nauseum.

It was a war where carpet bombing entire cities and civilians was commonplace. It was an ugly war and ugly things had to be done to finish it.

I completely agree, most of WW2 was a war crime, genocide. Yet, the title of this thread reads : "what's your point in the Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombings?". The answer to that can be no less than unjustifiable war crime.



Around the Network

Well I see nobody is reading the list of quotes I posted above.



Cuba, Congo, Peru, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Grenada, Libya, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, Iraq,
Somalia, Bosnia, Sudan, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Japan. What do all these countries have in common?
America has bombed every one of them. Maybe more.


On topic: I think a technology such as the atomic bomb, should not be used as a weapon.



CPU: Ryzen 9950X3D
GPU: MSI 4090 SUPRIM X 24G
Motherboard: MSI MEG X670E GODLIKE
RAM: CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM 32GB DDR5
SSD: Kingston FURY Renegade 4TB
Gaming Console: PLAYSTATION 5 PRO
bazmeistergen said:


This information is fine and all, but only if you accept the incorrect assumption that the Japanese didn't want to surrender. They did, but not in the way the politicians of the allies were willing to accept.

Right. The Japanese did not want to surrender unconditionally because it would have led to the removal of the Emperor from power and his possible indictment in war crimes tribunal. The same applied to all high ranking military leaders in the country. They had hoped to prolong the war long enough to force an armistice with the Allies (Operation Ketsugo).  They even anticipated the invasion course the Americans would take and were planning countermeasures. Their predicitons were very close to what was laid out in Operation Downfall.

In any event it was necessary for the Allies to demand unconditional surrender. They had demanded it of Germany. So why not Japan?  Since the Meiji Restoration Japan had become an Imperial player hellbent on expansion. Why take the risk of giving them a second chance? That was the lesson learned during WWI. The armistice resolved nothing in the long run and Germany went on to invade Austria in spite of the treaties. Then when they invaded Poland the Second World War began. Japan could have just as easily tried to pull the same thing with Korea and China. 

Moreover, Japan were the aggressors. Their unprovoked attack of Pearl Harbor demonstrated they were not to be trusted.

 

The Japanese would not have surrendered anytime soon had the Hiroshima bomb not been dropped. An abrupt end to the war was best for everyone.





It was a hoax. The japanese were frozen a used to make hot dogs for the next 40 years.



Around the Network
KichiVerde said:
bazmeistergen said:


This information is fine and all, but only if you accept the incorrect assumption that the Japanese didn't want to surrender. They did, but not in the way the politicians of the allies were willing to accept.

Moreover, Japan were the aggressors. Their unprovoked attack of Pearl Harbor demonstrated they were not to be trusted.

No, the Japan attack at Pearl Harbor was America's ticket into WW2 (with support from the American people). The moment they embargoed such an agressive Japan's oil, they knew and wanted them to attack.

Basically, they were provoked.



The Japanese would not have surrendered anytime soon had the Hiroshima bomb not been dropped. An abrupt end to the war was best for everyone.


"Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, "MacArthur's views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed." He continues, "When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor.""

Norman Cousins, The Pathology of Power, pg. 65, 70-71.



routsounmanman said:
KichiVerde said:
bazmeistergen said:


This information is fine and all, but only if you accept the incorrect assumption that the Japanese didn't want to surrender. They did, but not in the way the politicians of the allies were willing to accept.

Moreover, Japan were the aggressors. Their unprovoked attack of Pearl Harbor demonstrated they were not to be trusted.

No, the Japan attack at Pearl Harbor was America's ticket into WW2 (with support from the American people). The moment they embargoed such an agressive Japan's oil, they knew and wanted them to attack.

Basically, they were provoked.

They weren't provoked in their 1930s conquests, Nanking, or in the wholesale slaughter of Chinese citizens and Pacific Islanders. 

The US put strict embargoes on them (and the Germans) because they were attacking US allies. The American public wasn't ready to enter a war yet and Pearl Harbor gave the impetus to fight back with real troops.

But to say the Japanese were "provoked" is entirely and utterly wrong. They played the first hand and the US reacted to it, forcing an escalating situation.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

It had to be done. War is cruel and the USA had the biggest bomb. I really don't get why there's so much controversy.



theprof00 said:

The Japanese would not have surrendered anytime soon had the Hiroshima bomb not been dropped. An abrupt end to the war was best for everyone.


"Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, "MacArthur's views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed." He continues, "When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor.""

Norman Cousins, The Pathology of Power, pg. 65, 70-71.

 


MacArthur wasn't perfect, though it's hard to fault most of his analyses of the Japanese people.

Out of all your quotes, though, there is one major factor that few seem to address:

How would the US have stopped the USSR from taking huge chunks of China and Japan if the USA tried to wait out the Japanese people?




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/