Yes dabbling in witchcraft on halloween is so much worse than when Obama dabbled in marijuana and cocaine.... both of which he admits in his book
| mrstickball said: The real issue is with voters during primaries. That is why the system is so screwed up. People vote for the incumbent, or the person that promises the most, without learning about the candidates views and past successes. Voter turnout is usually 50% that of general elections in America (I should know, I've worked the past 3 elections in my state). If people care so little about who they elect as their parties candidate for the general election, things will go bad, because most end up voting based on party. If primaries were better - people cared more about who was up for election, then we'd be putting forth much better candidates. America could of had Ron Paul as its GOP nominee. Had they had him, I believe Obama wouldn't be in the white house today. As for Odonnell - my question would be 'what are her views when it comes to creating and writing laws?'. I could care less about their personal beleifs if it didn't get in the way of public policy. Thats something lacking from most peoples concerns, though. Many want candidates that look nice, but write absolutely insane policy. |
To the first bolded. I agree. Thats the political climate and still is to be honest. People can watch a commercial and agree 100% with it, it gets to the end and they see its a republican (and the voter is democrat) and they dismiss the entire ad.
To the second bolded. This is why i tend to vote democrat. There is a CLEAR distinction in governing styles as opposed to personal beliefs. We see this with Pro choice issues, healthcare and the big one, religion. The GOP is so rooted in the absolute NEED to appeal to very religious, conservative people that they simply MUST govern based on their beliefs. This is what holds them back national. For primaries, this is why ODonnel gets in because its republicans voting for republicans and they like that batshit insane shit, for real elections it simply doesnt appeal to a lot of peopl.
The GOP will surely win a lot of seats simply because like you said earlier, people are disillusioned based on what their image of what the president promised was however, like always, the GOP will be far too concerned with their base and the tea party will not help since that base is becoming not only more vocal but more fringe.
What ive found interesting in many polls about healthcare and such, the GOP always points to "approve/disapprove" but never really expand on whats the cause of diapproval. Because many of the debates centered around a public option (that base dems wanted) and was crafted more centric (this is essentially the same proposal made by the house during Clintons attempt in the early 90's and that was made by republicans) people dont realize many of us that disapprove of the current healthcare disapprove because it isnt enough, and thats why likely voters actually will vote, according to polls, more in favor of someone who voted FOR healthcare than against it, because we know damn well if we disapprove because its not enough we arent going to think a republican will get it done.
steverhcp02 said:
To the second bolded. This is why i tend to vote democrat. There is a CLEAR distinction in governing styles as opposed to personal beliefs. We see this with Pro choice issues, healthcare and the big one, religion. The GOP is so rooted in the absolute NEED to appeal to very religious, conservative people that they simply MUST govern based on their beliefs. This is what holds them back national. For primaries, this is why ODonnel gets in because its republicans voting for republicans and they like that batshit insane shit, for real elections it simply doesnt appeal to a lot of peopl. The GOP will surely win a lot of seats simply because like you said earlier, people are disillusioned based on what their image of what the president promised was however, like always, the GOP will be far too concerned with their base and the tea party will not help since that base is becoming not only more vocal but more fringe. What ive found interesting in many polls about healthcare and such, the GOP always points to "approve/disapprove" but never really expand on whats the cause of diapproval. Because many of the debates centered around a public option (that base dems wanted) and was crafted more centric (this is essentially the same proposal made by the house during Clintons attempt in the early 90's and that was made by republicans) people dont realize many of us that disapprove of the current healthcare disapprove because it isnt enough, and thats why likely voters actually will vote, according to polls, more in favor of someone who voted FOR healthcare than against it, because we know damn well if we disapprove because its not enough we arent going to think a republican will get it done. |
How exactly are the Tea Party a fringe group now? They have only 2 talking points they want to happen. One is to shrink the size of government, which has gotten too big and controls WAY too much. And second, to cut the outrageous spending. I don't see how any of those are "crazy" ideas. I support both of them and I wouldn't cosider myself crazy.
thismeintiel said:
How exactly are the Tea Party a fringe group now? They have only 2 talking points they want to happen. One is to shrink the size of government, which has gotten too big and controls WAY too much. And second, to cut the outrageous spending. I don't see how any of those are "crazy" ideas. I support both of them and I wouldn't cosider myself crazy. |
Youre taking two complex issues and talking about them like they are issues like having fish or chicken for dinner. I really dont have the time or effort to debate how they are fringe, but im very confident, as evident by Odonnel, it will become apparent when general elections hit.
They didnt become fringe, they have always been fringe. Over the last 8 years this country sacrificed so much of its actual freedom due to the patriot act and the tea party never batted an eye. The second you want to give people healthcare the shit hits the fan about freedom. Please.
The only reason they want to "vote them out" and its all about changing ALL of congress is because the majority are democrats. The second republicans take control the tea party will change its its mantra, i guarantee it.
The only thing more annoying than people who put their jobs on hold because the big bad government is taking their money so they can travel the country in lavish buses and yell through megaphones is the people who act like the tea party doesnt have deep rooted fringe republican ties.
A good way to tell if a group is fringe and pretty whacko? If the holy trinity, Hannity, Limbaugh and Beck approve, watch out! :)
HappySqurriel said:
How do you come to that conclusion? Equality of opportunity (in many ways) has been achieved. Public education, scholarships, and student loans ensure that the poor black student has the same opportunity to go onto college as the wealthy white student. In situations where public education is so poor that the poor student doesn't (realistically) have that opportunity you will find conservative minded individuals supporting improving the educational system to promote equality of opportunity. In this situation equality of outcomes would be promoted by creating quotas that ensured a certain percentage of college students were poor black students regardless of whether they were qualified or not ... |
the fact you think that shows you have no understanding of the real world whatsoever, nor of politics, well done.
voty2000 said:
Also, if Democrats are all about freedom, why did all but 2 of them vote for the Patriot Act? Come up with your own ideals and don't let a party tell you what to do. |
the Democrats are Right Wing Capitalists, I dont support them in any way, heck they are better than Republicans but thats about it and that aint saying much.
Homer_Simpson said:
the Democrats are Right Wing Capitalists, I dont support them in any way, heck they are better than Republicans but thats about it and that aint saying much. |
You call out the right and state that they're morons, but do you realize that the right says the same about the left and people in the middle think you're both morons? You act all high and mighty and then state that HappySqurriel doesn't know politics because he doesn't agree with you, instead of arguing your point, which shows me you don't really understand your beliefs, you just regurgitate what the left tells you. People have different opinions and a true politicians knows how to bring both sides together. There is a reason why their are two parties, because a government with only one party will fail and the founding fathers realized that. Their is nothing wrong with having ideas aligned with the far left or right but being condescending to the other side is ignorant and insulting and will accomplish nothing and will make you look foolish. Accept that the other side has differing opinions and find a way to bring both parties together, not divide them further. And most important, explain your side and have a responsible debate like an intelligent person and don't insult others with differing opinions.
Homer_Simpson said:
the fact you think that shows you have no understanding of the real world whatsoever, nor of politics, well done. |
So, how long have you held a job compared to HappySquirrel?
Back from the dead, I'm afraid.
steverhcp02 said:
Youre taking two complex issues and talking about them like they are issues like having fish or chicken for dinner. I really dont have the time or effort to debate how they are fringe, but im very confident, as evident by Odonnel, it will become apparent when general elections hit. They didnt become fringe, they have always been fringe. Over the last 8 years this country sacrificed so much of its actual freedom due to the patriot act and the tea party never batted an eye. The second you want to give people healthcare the shit hits the fan about freedom. Please. The only reason they want to "vote them out" and its all about changing ALL of congress is because the majority are democrats. The second republicans take control the tea party will change its its mantra, i guarantee it. The only thing more annoying than people who put their jobs on hold because the big bad government is taking their money so they can travel the country in lavish buses and yell through megaphones is the people who act like the tea party doesnt have deep rooted fringe republican ties. A good way to tell if a group is fringe and pretty whacko? If the holy trinity, Hannity, Limbaugh and Beck approve, watch out! :) |
I speak of it that way, because those 2 issues ARE that simple. Unfornately, we have career Dem's and Rep's who are more worried about power and money, than actually representing the people. That is going to start to change this Nov.
And it's alittle more complicated than just Rep. vs. Dem. If it was that, they would have voted for Castle in DE (not to mention the other races where Tea Party candidates won). Castle was who all the big Rep.'s wanted nominated, and therefore endorsed. This movement has to do with Conservative policies.
Of course, I'm just the opposite when it comes to Hannity, Limbaugh, and Beck. Do I always agree with them? No. But for the most part, I do.
| theman88 said: Yes dabbling in witchcraft on halloween is so much worse than when Obama dabbled in marijuana and cocaine.... both of which he admits in his book |
To the freaky religious right it should be. Anyway, that cheap shot at Obama was fail, seeing as many people dabbled with drugs when they were younger.
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