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Forums - General - Mafia Round 20 Game Thread

OK, there we go, I was wrong, I can accept that. 

I eagerly await the answer to "If I (Homer) were to have investigated a person who was switched with a mafia (e.g. by a bodysnatcher or bus driver), what would the result have been?" 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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Final-Fan said:

1.  Yes, his claim of my being mafia is indeed brought into question by my ability to revive people IMO.  That is exactly what I just said. 

And you don't see anything wrong with that.

2.  I see.  I believe I could have simultaneously stopped the kill AND revived Heph.  I regret that I did not do that, but I thought no one would fucking die, so I could safely wait till day and convince you all I was innocent, which would help the town by removing a suspect. 

Or you could have just done it and claimed you did it the enxt day and explained why you did it at night

3.  I can see that point of view on the timing of my claim.  However, such a drastic move would be completely uncalled-for.  I am not a noob and making an outlandish claim under mild scrutiny is a total panic move. 

It's not an outlandish claim. It's very believable.


In this quote you actually say that you have a 100% chance of getting heph back despite being confused and not helped by radish.
Actually, no.  I didn't mention it at all because I thought it was irrelevant.  In fact, I even mention that I HAD thought it was random (because of the unmentioned confuse) but then I looked at it again and thought it wasn't (because I thought the confuse didn't matter). 

-Yes you said

"But I assume radish is the one reviving the twins, so he has better things to do than cure me, and anyway there's no guarantee the power I have would improve and the longer I wait to use it the more people die and right now I have a 50% 100% shot of reviving our stupidly powerful doctor""

 STOP LYING TO ME, you made a mistake, I don't care anymore. Live with it!

Please can anybody tell me what I'm not understanding here? Seriously. Am I insane, because that looks like the exact opposite of what he just said.

To me, you should have just done it, but you wielded this power as if you didn't want to use it. Why wouldn't you?
There was a REMOTE possibility that someone had something else they wanted to happen first, or I just wanted people's opinion.  Part of this was me just mindlessly sticking to the original plan (when I thought it was random) of asking people's opinions on go/no go. 

Are you giving me a choice into what your excuse should be? You're not expressing yourself clearly. It's like you don't even know why.... and one of those excuses is garbage. Something someone wanted to happen first? Are you serious?

 

TRUE/FALSE?  "It was in my initial roleclaim that I am confused and my power might improve in accuracy if radish were to cure me."
You are correct that the word "confuse" is missing from my post.  But observe:  "But I assume radish is the one reviving the twins, so he has better things to do than cure me, and anyway there's no guarantee the power I have would improve and the longer I wait to use it the more people die and right now I have a 50% 100% shot of reviving our stupidly powerful doctor"
This supports that I initially thought it was randomized by my confusion -- a state which had been curable by radish -- but then I (wrongly) thought it wasn't.  Evidently in my pre-posting editing session I must have deleted the explicit mention of "confuse" for what at the time was clarity purposes. 

Yes, once again, you must have made a mistake when you said "right now I have a 50% 100% shot of reviving the doctor". This is why the confuse needing to be cured is suspicious, because even without the cure, you had 100%.

 

Here's your rebuttal ff.



How much time is left?



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
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PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

dtewi said:

Day ends at 5:30 PM 9/24.

Never mind.  I found it.  Eastern Time by the way.  I'll be at work.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Mobile - Yugioh Duel Links (2017)
Mobile - Super Mario Run (2017)
PC - Borderlands 2 (2012)
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

Interesting notes: 

GoW singled out 3 people as "noobs" that should not be lynched just for being noobs -- that we should wait till the next day and make them defend themselves:  MG, Homer, radish. 

TOS and GoW both made charts for us to fill out on Day 1.  TOS's was "name = alignment?" and GoW's was "should we lynch day 1 or not?"



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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Final-Fan said:
theprof00 said:
guys c'mon seriously
it says
"y other ability is to make one person immune from a night kill during the game"
A NIGHT KILL

OK, but maybe it's one free "do not die" pass that lasts the whole game, instead of disappearing after one night. 

what? How? Why?

I'm sorry ff, at this point I don't care what side you're on, it doens't matter.

I feel like I'm making an enemy of you, personally, and I don't want that.

I just can't understand a word you are saying, how you got that......I'm flabbergasted.

I'm just going to stop commenting on your posts..because I can feel myself getting upset and I don't want it to spill over, again.



theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:

1.  Yes, his claim of my being mafia is indeed brought into question by my ability to revive people IMO.  That is exactly what I just said. 
And you don't see anything wrong with that.
Well, since we don't know he is telling the truth, yeah, I think my definite ability to revive is a relevant decision factor, so no, I don't think I'm wrong to point that out. 

2.  I see.  I believe I could have simultaneously stopped the kill AND revived Heph.  I regret that I did not do that, but I thought no one would fucking die, so I could safely wait till day and convince you all I was innocent, which would help the town by removing a suspect. 
Or you could have just done it and claimed you did it the enxt day and explained why you did it at night
Because obviously NO ONE would suspect I was taking credit for something I didn't do or try to take credit for it themselves.  In fact GoW didn't claim he used a kill power on nen-suer. 

3.  I can see that point of view on the timing of my claim.  However, such a drastic move would be completely uncalled-for.  I am not a noob and making an outlandish claim under mild scrutiny is a total panic move. 
It's not an outlandish claim. It's very believable.
Excuse me.  Just because the last two games have had insane roles doesn't mean it's normal.  Remember all the really crazy roles were revealed today.  It is an outlandish claim. 

In this quote you actually say that you have a 100% chance of getting heph back despite being confused and not helped by radish.
Actually, no.  I didn't mention it at all because I thought it was irrelevant.  In fact, I even mention that I HAD thought it was random (because of the unmentioned confuse) but then I looked at it again and thought it wasn't (because I thought the confuse didn't matter). 

-Yes you said

"But I assume radish is the one reviving the twins, so he has better things to do than cure me, and anyway there's no guarantee the power I have would improve and the longer I wait to use it the more people die and right now I have a 50% 100% shot of reviving our stupidly powerful doctor""

 STOP LYING TO ME, you made a mistake, I don't care anymore. Live with it!
I meant I didn't mention the confusion.  The quote was right there, I'm not blind. 

Please can anybody tell me what I'm not understanding here? Seriously. Am I insane, because that looks like the exact opposite of what he just said.

To me, you should have just done it, but you wielded this power as if you didn't want to use it. Why wouldn't you?
There was a REMOTE possibility that someone had something else they wanted to happen first, or I just wanted people's opinion.  Part of this was me just mindlessly sticking to the original plan (when I thought it was random) of asking people's opinions on go/no go. 

Are you giving me a choice into what your excuse should be? You're not expressing yourself clearly. It's like you don't even know why.... and one of those excuses is garbage. Something someone wanted to happen first? Are you serious?

Sorry, your annoyance is understandable here.  I should have said "and".  Yes, I'm serious.  If I had a role this crazy, who knows what the hell is out there?  I didn't.  So if I waited for daytime, I might as well wait a bit for input.   

TRUE/FALSE?  "It was in my initial roleclaim that I am confused and my power might improve in accuracy if radish were to cure me."
You are correct that the word "confuse" is missing from my post.  But observe:  "But I assume radish is the one reviving the twins, so he has better things to do than cure me, and anyway there's no guarantee the power I have would improve and the longer I wait to use it the more people die and right now I have a 50% 100% shot of reviving our stupidly powerful doctor"
This supports that I initially thought it was randomized by my confusion -- a state which had been curable by radish -- but then I (wrongly) thought it wasn't.  Evidently in my pre-posting editing session I must have deleted the explicit mention of "confuse" for what at the time was clarity purposes. 
Yes, once again, you must have made a mistake when you said "right now I have a 50% 100% shot of reviving the doctor". This is why the confuse needing to be cured is suspicious, because even without the cure, you had 100%.

What mistake are you talking about?  50% in strikethrough is a DELIBERATE CHOICE to say "I thought it was random but now I think it isn't".  That was a mistake but I don't think that's what you're talking about.  So, when that post mentions "radish having better things to do than cure me" it is an indication that I have a STATUS AILMENT (because that is what radish said he was good for curing) that I used to think was relevant to my revival ability but then didn't think affected it.  (Which was mistaken.) 

Here's your rebuttal ff.

My responses are in italics.  Quotes which were formerly italicized are now underlined.  The biggest point of contention IMO is the last one, and you are completely off base in that one.  The initial post DOES in fact indicate that I have a status ailment, and also indicates that PREVIOUSLY to that post (but not at the time of the post) I believed said status ailment caused the revival to be randomized.  God I'm glad I left that strikethrough text in. 

Now, if you like, you can argue that that entire post was an orchestrated lie, where I planted that belief in order to point to it later in defense against this accusation, but ... no.  If I was that forward-thinking, I wouldn't have claimed in the first place if I was mafia.  Your whole argument is that I claimed the revival power and didn't anticipate that I would actually be expected to use it. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:
theprof00 said:
guys c'mon seriously
it says
"y other ability is to make one person immune from a night kill during the game"
A NIGHT KILL

OK, but maybe it's one free "do not die" pass that lasts the whole game, instead of disappearing after one night. 

what? How? Why?
I'm sorry ff, at this point I don't care what side you're on, it doens't matter.
I feel like I'm making an enemy of you, personally, and I don't want that.
I just can't understand a word you are saying, how you got that......I'm flabbergasted.

I'm just going to stop commenting on your posts..because I can feel myself getting upset and I don't want it to spill over, again.

Aww.  I really wanted to pursue the one specific point at the bottom of the other post.  Cause I think I might actually be able to make you see the light on that one.  I mean, you said I only brought up the "I'm confused" thing later on as a backpedal, right, and the allusion to my status ailment is RIGHT THERE. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:

1.  Yes, his claim of my being mafia is indeed brought into question by my ability to revive people IMO.  That is exactly what I just said. 
And you don't see anything wrong with that.
Well, since we don't know he is telling the truth, yeah, I think my definite ability to revive is a relevant decision factor, so no, I don't think I'm wrong to point that out.
A power is never proof of alignment. 



2.  I see.  I believe I could have simultaneously stopped the kill AND revived Heph.  I regret that I did not do that, but I thought no one would fucking die, so I could safely wait till day and convince you all I was innocent, which would help the town by removing a suspect. 
Or you could have just done it and claimed you did it the enxt day and explained why you did it at night
Because obviously NO ONE would suspect I was taking credit for something I didn't do or try to take credit for it themselves.  In fact GoW didn't claim he used a kill power on nen-suer. 
Well, you're whole argument goes out the window because now everyone suspects you are a mafia reviver. So it was such a better decision to use it at a time that could prove your innocence rather than bring back the doctor. priorities, priorities.

3.  I can see that point of view on the timing of my claim.  However, such a drastic move would be completely uncalled-for.  I am not a noob and making an outlandish claim under mild scrutiny is a total panic move. 
It's not an outlandish claim. It's very believable.
Excuse me.  Just because the last two games have had insane roles doesn't mean it's normal.  Remember all the really crazy roles were revealed today.  It is an outlandish claim. 
A reviver is an outlandish claim.....is that what you're saying?



In this quote you actually say that you have a 100% chance of getting heph back despite being confused and not helped by radish.
Actually, no.  I didn't mention it at all because I thought it was irrelevant.  In fact, I even mention that I HAD thought it was random (because of the unmentioned confuse) but then I looked at it again and thought it wasn't (because I thought the confuse didn't matter). 

-Yes you said

"But I assume radish is the one reviving the twins, so he has better things to do than cure me, and anyway there's no guarantee the power I have would improve and the longer I wait to use it the more people die and right now I have a 50% 100% shot of reviving our stupidly powerful doctor""

 STOP LYING TO ME, you made a mistake, I don't care anymore. Live with it!
I meant I didn't mention the confusion.  The quote was right there, I'm not blind. 

Well please be more clear when you write, because that seemed very insulting. However, the follow-up to that rebuttal is this: Why would you even bother mentioning radish if the confusion ailment isn't even implied? I understand you didn't say the word confusion itself.. but you implied that you were affected.

Please can anybody tell me what I'm not understanding here? Seriously. Am I insane, because that looks like the exact opposite of what he just said.

To me, you should have just done it, but you wielded this power as if you didn't want to use it. Why wouldn't you?
There was a REMOTE possibility that someone had something else they wanted to happen first, or I just wanted people's opinion.  Part of this was me just mindlessly sticking to the original plan (when I thought it was random) of asking people's opinions on go/no go. 

Are you giving me a choice into what your excuse should be? You're not expressing yourself clearly. It's like you don't even know why.... and one of those excuses is garbage. Something someone wanted to happen first? Are you serious?

Sorry, your annoyance is understandable here.  I should have said "and".  Yes, I'm serious.  If I had a role this crazy, who knows what the hell is out there?  I didn't.  So if I waited for daytime, I might as well wait a bit for input.   

Thank you. That is a hundred times less suspicious and 100 times clearer.

TRUE/FALSE?  "It was in my initial roleclaim that I am confused and my power might improve in accuracy if radish were to cure me."
You are correct that the word "confuse" is missing from my post.  But observe:  "But I assume radish is the one reviving the twins, so he has better things to do than cure me, and anyway there's no guarantee the power I have would improve and the longer I wait to use it the more people die and right now I have a 50% 100% shot of reviving our stupidly powerful doctor"
This supports that I initially thought it was randomized by my confusion -- a state which had been curable by radish -- but then I (wrongly) thought it wasn't.  Evidently in my pre-posting editing session I must have deleted the explicit mention of "confuse" for what at the time was clarity purposes. 
Yes, once again, you must have made a mistake when you said "right now I have a 50% 100% shot of reviving the doctor". This is why the confuse needing to be cured is suspicious, because even without the cure, you had 100%.

What mistake are you talking about?  50% in strikethrough is a DELIBERATE CHOICE to say "I thought it was random but now I think it isn't".  That was a mistake but I don't think that's what you're talking about.  So, when that post mentions "radish having better things to do than cure me" it is an indication that I have a STATUS AILMENT (because that is what radish said he was good for curing) that I used to think was relevant to my revival ability but then didn't think affected it.  (Which was mistaken.) 

It does indeed look like you're simply not expressing yourself clearly. If you've changed your mind, don't just strike through the previous thought. Reword it completely to satisfy the change. Your strike through does indeed convey a change of thought...but a number right next to it is supposed to be the correction. you wrote just above here "but now I think it isn't". "I think it isn't =/= 100%. And, yes you're right. You implied a status effect. Which if you can please understand, does not mesh well at all with your strikethrough 50% -> 100%. Your claim implied a status effect that did not make a difference to your accuracy. My whole beef with that, was that LATER you said you should be cured. If you can put yurself in my shoes, what you are saying is contradictory.

BUT, contradictory is ok. Contradictory is ok when you explain yourself properly, not when you just pop in and say the opposite like we are supposed to understand that you've been conflicted about it the whole time. That's the problem.

Here's your rebuttal ff.



Now, if you like, you can argue that that entire post was an orchestrated lie, where I planted that belief in order to point to it later in defense against this accusation, but ... no.  If I was that forward-thinking, I wouldn't have claimed in the first place if I was mafia.  Your whole argument is that I claimed the revival power and didn't anticipate that I would actually be expected to use it. 

I want you to understand something. I've NEVER been saying that it was an orchestrated lie. I've been saying that there exists a possibility that it COULD be one. I've been saying it is suspicious. But you don't see that. And I think you don't see that because when you read your posts you see all the implications and tone because it's your thoughts. When I read it, I just see the post and some tone. You can't expect me to read your mind, and you can't expect people to not see suspicion in those words.



Final-Fan said:

Aww.  I really wanted to pursue the one specific point at the bottom of the other post.  Cause I think I might actually be able to make you see the light on that one.  I mean, you said I only brought up the "I'm confused" thing later on as a backpedal, right, and the allusion to my status ailment is RIGHT THERE. 


I replied.

Your being confused is obviously implied in your claim.

My problem wasn't with you writing "i'm confused" as some sudden backpedal, but that first it didn't matter, and then it did. Please read my response.