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Forums - Gaming - Valve:Assumptions of XBox Live 'such a train wreck'

Lyrikalstylez said:

I hope Valve realizes that by bad mouthing Xbox 360 they will lose over 50% of game sales right

 

*Smart Move lol*


Where did he badmouth the Xbox 360? All he's saying is that Xbox Live has some restrictions over PSN when it comes to game updates. He just gives his personal opinion and criticizes MS policy on XBL. Freedom of Speech?

Also, this could very well help us all. If enough pressure comes from developers, maybe MS lifts the restrictions a bit. And this helps us all, right?



updated: 14.01.2012

playing right now: Xenoblade Chronicles

Hype-o-meter, from least to most hyped:  the Last Story, Twisted Metal, Mass Effect 3, Final Fantasy XIII-2, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, Playstation ViTA

bet with Mordred11 that Rage will look better on Xbox 360.

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themanwithnoname said:
Zkuq said:
MrBubbles said:

there has been free content released for games so thats not a good defense. 

I haven't been following 360 games but care to give any examples? And non-MS-released please, I'm sure MS can make an exception for themselves. Also, make those examples anywhere near what TF2 has got.


Red Dead Redemption co-op. L4D survival mode. SSFIV Tournament Mode.

I can bet all those  free updates cost a ton for those companies.



cmeese47 said:
themanwithnoname said:
Zkuq said:
MrBubbles said:

there has been free content released for games so thats not a good defense. 

I haven't been following 360 games but care to give any examples? And non-MS-released please, I'm sure MS can make an exception for themselves. Also, make those examples anywhere near what TF2 has got.


Red Dead Redemption co-op. L4D survival mode. SSFIV Tournament Mode.

I can bet all those  free updates cost a ton for those companies.


Based on what?



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.

Slimebeast said:
Shorty11857 said:
Slimebeast said:

What does he mean? Game updates are allowed on PSN but not on Xbox?


Well Xbox game updates have to be small, just the patch nothing more

For PSN the game updates can include all the free to download stuff as well dlc so you just basically use an unlock code when you buy it


PSN system isn't perfect though, it's annoying as hell when you buy a new game only to have to sit through 15-30 minutes of updates to play it, talking to you LBP

Yeah I'm with Microsoft on this. To demand tight well-thought updates is the right thing. I hate to update a game every second week.

So you'd rather pay for updates on Xbox 360 that the PC gamers get for free?!

Team Fortress 2 has has over 120 free updates, with tons of stuff for free. Microsoft stopped Valve from releasing free stuff on the Xbox 360 version, and not only that, but Microsoft also forced Xbox 360 gamers to pay for the TF2 updates.

It's funny how some people are criticizing Valve, considering that Valve has released more stuff than all Xbox 360 games combined, AND FOR FREE!!! Who wants to pay $50 for MW2 DLC, when you can get 20 times more stuff for free on TF2 PC?



leatherhat said:
MrBubbles said:

there has been free content released for games so thats not a good defense. 


All I know is a map pack for l4d2 cost xbox owners 7 bucks and pc owners nothing


http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223330



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Lyrikalstylez said:

I hope Valve realizes that by bad mouthing Xbox 360 they will lose over 50% of game sales right

 

*Smart Move lol*

How will they lose sales if they're concerned about Xbox 360 gamers? Valve doesn't want Microsoft to stop them from releasing free updates/DLC to gamers.

Who do you think is losing the most? The Xbox 360 gamers, because they're paying for stuff that are free on other platforms.



nightsurge said:

I don't get it.  Most multiplatform games I have played always seem to get their updates, patches, bug fixes, etc out first on Xbox Live.

Is he saying MS charges for them to have updates?  Because if so, doesn't Sony charge for bandwidth which updates will use?

I guess I am not following what he is saying from the small quotes out of context provided in the OP.  Someone want to expand on this?  I was always under the impression that developers loved XBL more than PSN for a plethora of reasons.


It's probably moreso a limit on the size of these updates.  Team Fortress 2 has become a completely different game over the years thanks to numerous large updates tweaking the classes and adding new content.  Few games recieve that level of support after release.

An even better example is the Left 4 Dead series.  Both Left 4 Dead and its sequel saw entirely new campaigns released for free through Steam around six months after release (Crash Course for L4D1, The Passing for L4D2), while Valve were forced to charge for this content on XBL (they went with the minimum price MS allows - 560 MS points).   Unlike with Team Fortress, at least Valve did released this content on 360, probably because it was a single large release rather than numerous mid-sized releases.

Valve provides post-launch support for their titles like no other, so its not surprising they'd have more issues with any stringent update policies Microsoft may have.

As for whether developers prefer XBL over PSN, it really depends on what the developer wants to do.  PSN's more open structure provides more flexibility for developers who wish to approach online gaming, stat tracking, etc. in unconventional ways, while XBL provides a more standardized and more user friendly set up that allows any developer to easily implement such features into their products.  If you're going for a more traditional online experience, XBL makes that really easy, which is why many developers prefer that platform.   Valve in this case prefers PSN, given it allows them to implement Steam into Portal 2, allowing for back-end patching alongside the PC version and thus cross platform play between the two versions.

Of course, unlike Valve, most multiplatform developers will design their game around XBL's available functionality in an attempt to maintain parity between both versions of the game, and in such situations the ease of working with XBL will be more beneficial to developers.  You can generally make the PS3 version on par with the 360 version in any situation, it just takes more work (sometimes A LOT more work) to get it there.  You'll occasionally see companies relying on third parties to help out as a result, like Rockstar using Gamespy in the ps3 version of Red Dead Redemption.  Or maybe it was EA and Bad Company 2 - I can't really remember.

Anyway, in such cases PSN's more "do-it-yourself" nature is probably seen as a hindrance, but in other situations it can be seen as a great boon, and its because of this that we've seen interesting stuff on ps3 like LittleBigPlanet's unusual party system or Demon's Souls' blood stains and phantoms.  There's also the fact that Final Fantasy XIV is currently only on PC/PS3, but that's probably due to the same update issues Valve is facing on top of the whole subscription fee problem.  They can't have 360 players play with ps3/pc players if they can't update all three games simultaneously.



I find it funny people are complaining about Valve when all they want to do is release more content for free and support their games. This is bad thing now? You all want to pay for stuff the developer wants to give you for free?!

Valve: "Here, we'll give you all this extra content for absolutely free! No charge or thanks neccessary, just enjoy!"

360 fans: "NO! We want to pay for it, only PC gamers get should get it for free!"

Microsoft: "HAHAHAHA, more money!"

I mean, wtf?!



I kinda agree with him on some level, in that M$ needs to open up XBL more to have developers work on getting titles and products out faster and update things quicker.  I know the Zune platform was/is horrible for getting 3rd party stuff, so hopefully, WP7 isn't.  I understand M$ doesn't want people throwing out alot of free content, because they have an business plan, but developers should be able to launch update and fixes much faster, always!  As for the tone of Gabe's comments, it's jsut Gabe being Gabe...people want to get all out of whack over them...xbox fans, let's not be PS3 fans...please.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

Ajescent said:

He sure changed his tone pretty quickly.



Yup, now he's sucking Sony's dick he'll begin to trash Microsoft.