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Forums - Gaming - Are third parties morons or are their actions deliberate?

Doobie_wop said:

 

Why should Third Parties make a serious effort on a system when even the platform leader isn't even trying? You can say whatever you want, but Nintendo came into this generation with one purpose, to take the kids and soccer mum market. All their ads, games and PR from the first two years of this generation have been dedicated to that specific market and then when a Third Party Effort is made it bombs because the market they want just isn't there. Third Parties followed in Nintendo's footsteps, release what the market wants and that market is mostly young children, middle aged women and older people, I highly doubt any of them want to play Fallout 3.

Nintendo should also make a legitimate effort to partner with Third Parties, Sony & Microsoft busted their balls this gen to make deals with Third Parties and in the end most of those deals paid off. If Sony can start the generation with one of weakest software line-ups and then turn that around in just a couple of years, then I think Nintendo can do the same.

You brought up other genres like FPS/TPS/Sandbox/RPG etc. If Nintendo's own FPS (Metroid Prime 3) can only sell 1.56 million copies, then what do you expect other first party developers to do? What foundations do they have to work on? Activision are now trying to make a legitimate effort, but I bet that when Goldeneye and Black Ops release Nintendo fans are going to kick up a fuss about something (crap online, game looks ugly etc). 

Nintendo have built a crap console, the online support is rubbish, the Wiiware service is rubbish, the motion controls barely worked for the first two years of release outside of some waggling fun and developers have to take on all those problems and then try make a game for a userbase that isn't there.

The conspiracy theories that are coming up in this thread are ridiculous, the Third Party situation is partly Nintendo's fault as well as the fault of other publishers. The only thing Nintendo can offer now is cheaper development, the PS3/360 has everything else such as the userbase, the audience, the ease of cross platform development, the online infrastructure and a history of buying the games that developers enjoy making.

1. The core market for third party games was there, in the beginning. Third parties (and to a lesser degree, Nintendo), failed to capitalize on that. Some early games banked an easy million even if they weren't all that good, but follow-up efforts never came. Test games never saw the follow-through, even if they were successful (like Umbrella Chronicles)

2. You can't call Metroid the end-all of FPS, and many Metroid fans (not me, i'm one of the few who classes Metroid Prime as an FPS) would find it insulting to do so. We can only imagine what would have happened if Infinity Ward had actually debased themselves enough to develop Modern Warfare simultaneously for Wii.

3. Its an environment where 3rd parties still think they're the king like gens 5 and 6, when it's become quite clear that they're not. The age of manufacturers bending over backwards for them should be over, and rightly so.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Mr Khan said:

Bingo. Third parties have to try their hardest to prevent investor revolt, when they have a bad quarter, savvy investors are going to first and foremost ask why they're ignoring 48% of the console market. So they tossed a few low-budget bones out there, and it was a win-win scenario. If their crap somehow managed to catch on, hooray, we've got a low-budget hit (2K games, foremost in the piss-poor supporters of Wii, lucked out there with Carnival Games), and if they fail, then hooray, they can justify ignoring Wii to their investors, and they don't lose much money on it (Bandai-Namco hit that note with Soul Calibur Legends, and EA did tremendously with Dead Space Extraction)

 

To up the ante, they hire market "analysts" like Pachter and Divnich and Frasier, who then tell the investors to their face that high-quality Wii development is a bad idea.

This is making a lot of sense.



Mr Khan said:
Doobie_wop said:

 

 

1. The core market for third party games was there, in the beginning. Third parties (and to a lesser degree, Nintendo), failed to capitalize on that. Some early games banked an easy million even if they weren't all that good, but follow-up efforts never came. Test games never saw the follow-through, even if they were successful (like Umbrella Chronicles)

2. You can't call Metroid the end-all of FPS, and many Metroid fans (not me, i'm one of the few who classes Metroid Prime as an FPS) would find it insulting to do so. We can only imagine what would have happened if Infinity Ward had actually debased themselves enough to develop Modern Warfare simultaneously for Wii.

3. Its an environment where 3rd parties still think they're the king like gens 5 and 6, when it's become quite clear that they're not. The age of manufacturers bending over backwards for them should be over, and rightly so.

1. No. You can't deny that Nintendo had a different set of intentions and it worked out for them, Nintendo had a specific idea of a console in mind and that's what they got. Third Parties have to work around that and despite earlier efforts, it didn't work out. When they continue to try (NMH2, Red Steel 2) their only punished with lower sales. The only reason Nintendo needed test games is because the console was a risk to develop on.

2. Metroid is an FPS, the same way Bioshock, The Darkness and Half Life are FPS. World at War had a simultaneous release and the game sold significantly less than it's HD counterparts. Like I mentioned before, the Wii isn't as easy to develop for as many like to think because it uses a different control format, it's online system is buggy and the system is underpowered. People are also under the assumption that all Third Party games should be multi-platform, I don't because it takes away unnecessary effort away from the consoles that we know will sell enough copies. 

3. Manufacturers need Third Parties to support their platform, people blame the Wii's significant drop in sales recently because of it's lack luster software support, then that shows that software still drives the platform. The only reason you follow that line of thinking is because your strictly a Wii gamer, but had my PS3 got no Third party support I would have sold it. I don't know about you, but I play more than 5 games a year. 



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

This far into the generation, we're still droning on about how 3rd parties are evil idiots? Where's the 3rd party bingo board?



Maybe they are the smart form of moron?

By the time it became apparant that the Wii was going to be a success (Holiday 2006 at the earliest) they had no relevant games to bring to the Wii in progress. Since most good games require a minimum of 18-30 months development with between 6-18 months of pre-production it would take between 2 - 4 years before any efforts started around the time of the Wii launch came to fruition. However since most games developers from publishers were already tied up for projects on the Xbox 360/PS3 and were halfway through development, the publishers best ROI would have had to have been to keep the good/decent projects on the Xbox 360/PS3 and any bad projects were probably scrapped and the developers refocused onto the Wii. Since these are poorer developers and given a time constraint to take advantage of the Wii success, comedy ensued aka shovelware.

By 2007/2008 it was apparant which studios were successful and which were not. The successful (good) studios were kept on task to release Xbox 360/PS3 content and still more average studios were probably tasked with Wii development. This is the point where we start to see better but not great content coming out for the Wii whilst the fewer battle tested excellent third party developers remained tasked with Xbox 360/PS3 content. This explains the content coming out in 2009/2010 and some of 2011.

 

 



Tease.

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Doobie_wop said:
Mr Khan said:
Doobie_wop said:

 

 

1. The core market for third party games was there, in the beginning. Third parties (and to a lesser degree, Nintendo), failed to capitalize on that. Some early games banked an easy million even if they weren't all that good, but follow-up efforts never came. Test games never saw the follow-through, even if they were successful (like Umbrella Chronicles)

2. You can't call Metroid the end-all of FPS, and many Metroid fans (not me, i'm one of the few who classes Metroid Prime as an FPS) would find it insulting to do so. We can only imagine what would have happened if Infinity Ward had actually debased themselves enough to develop Modern Warfare simultaneously for Wii.

3. Its an environment where 3rd parties still think they're the king like gens 5 and 6, when it's become quite clear that they're not. The age of manufacturers bending over backwards for them should be over, and rightly so.

1. No. You can't deny that Nintendo had a different set of intentions and it worked out for them, Nintendo had a specific idea of a console in mind and that's what they got. Third Parties have to work around that and despite earlier efforts, it didn't work out. When they continue to try (NMH2, Red Steel 2) their only punished with lower sales. The only reason Nintendo needed test games is because the console was a risk to develop on.

2. Metroid is an FPS, the same way Bioshock, The Darkness and Half Life are FPS. World at War had a simultaneous release and the game sold significantly less than it's HD counterparts. Like I mentioned before, the Wii isn't as easy to develop for as many like to think because it uses a different control format, it's online system is buggy and the system is underpowered. People are also under the assumption that all Third Party games should be multi-platform, I don't because it takes away unnecessary effort away from the consoles that we know will sell enough copies. 

3. Manufacturers need Third Parties to support their platform, people blame the Wii's significant drop in sales recently because of it's lack luster software support, then that shows that software still drives the platform. The only reason you follow that line of thinking is because your strictly a Wii gamer, but had my PS3 got no Third party support I would have sold it. I don't know about you, but I play more than 5 games a year. 

I'm not saying third party support is non-essential, but its clearly peripheral to hardware sales at this point, outside of a few key franchises and regions. I buy and play third party games too, but they're non-essential for the manufacturers' hardware sales.

 

And on point 2, developers seem to be willing to overcome hurdles to port elsewhere, into even more hostile environments (PSP). There has to be something underlying here.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

actually reason psp get games that its sony got better deals with third parties and support them in everything, also sony makes software engines to make it easier.

not that machine can sell software, or userbase or raw power. though is known psp got a very core Userbase especially in japan.

have u seen imsomniac talk about sony? they sure know how to get developers happy, they support it even the game probably not going to break a million.

and DS did got a assasin creed, kh spinsoff, even if nintendo was pretty much always a jerk in before gamecube failed.

also another thing, wii demographic isn't all shooter core that third party developers like to do.

remenber dead rising? u know what happen.



Mr Khan said:

 I'm not saying third party support is non-essential, but its clearly peripheral to hardware sales at this point, outside of a few key franchises and regions. I buy and play third party games too, but they're non-essential for the manufacturers' hardware sales.

 

And on point 2, developers seem to be willing to overcome hurdles to port elsewhere, into even more hostile environments (PSP). There has to be something underlying here.

I'd give a longer answer but I've got go out,  sorry.

Like I said earlier, the PSP (similar to the DS) costs much less to develop for and I'm betting that Sony puts a lot of effort into convincing these publishers to create these cheap games. Sony had a marketing deal with Ubisoft for Assassins Creed 2, for all we know, that PSP game was apart of that deal.



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

Who is to say this isn't benefiting Nintendo? 

They basically have 48% of the console market all to themselves making games for much less money.  3rd parties, through their actions, have basically created a whole new generation of people strongly devoted to Nintendo.  There are a lot of people out there who own the Wii as their only system and know equate Nintendo with top quality and equate 3rd parties as third rate trash. 

This isn't like Playstation where when 3rd parties bail, they sink--Nintendo games are unique in the industry and are only available on Nintendo platforms. Madden and Need for Speed you can get anywhere.

In the end, third parties only fucked themselves.  Anyone that still doubts this should do a little research on jobs lost this generation compared to every other.

So yeah, Nintendo is doing fine and dandy.  They're sitting on top of the world with a whole new army of people that quickly found out no one in the world makes games as well as they do.  It's 1985 all over again.

Third parties? They're in the alley behind a dive bar sucking dick for beer money.



I don't know about anyone else but I don't want to play (let alone buy) games like FPS, RTS, GT5, Forza, Red dead Redemption, Madden, NFS, MGS4, MW 1&2 or even Pinball  on the Wii.

I wonder just how many  of that 48% wii owners owns also a HD console especially those who like any of the games (genre) I just mention?