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naznatips said:
ckmlb said:
@Naznatips: what was so different in the new Pokemon besides online and more Pokemon???


Let me go through all the things that have changed in Pokemon since Red and Blue:

Dual types added, attacks separated into special and physical based on type, extra stats added, breeding, egg moves, new types, new type combinations which previously weren't possible, GBA insertion trading, equippable items, secret bases, mining, dolls and decorations, attacks separated into special and physical based on individual moves instead of types, 3D world, instrumental music, heavily increased graphics, diving underwater, online play, online trading, times of day added (Early morning, morning, noon, afternoon, evening, and night), time specific pokemon occurances (some are in specifc spots on certain days of the week or at certain times of day), time specific evolutions, split path evolutions, dual evolutions (One pokemon becomes 2 like Ninjask and Nincada), double battles, Pokemon contests, Pokemon contest moves, pokemon contest stats (beauty, coolness, etc.), ribbons, pokeball tossing effects, pokeball stickers, pokemon clothes and decorations, STAB attacks, 4X effective attacks, Pokemon genders, pokemon gender differences, Pokemon summoning cries and movements, ability passing onto baby pokemon, everstone holding to pass gender onto baby pokemon, new status conditions, double battle moves, new pokeballs, pokemon natures, pokemon EVs, Pokemon IVs, weather effects, pokemon who change types in the weather, pokemon in trees, berries, planting, Pokemon food (created by combining berries), cooking, the poketch (includes many never seen tools), pokemon daycares, TV interviews, the daily lottery, pokeball seals, voice chat in online play, capture the flag multiplayer in the underground, pokemon mail, Pokemon happiness and anger.

Oh, and a shitload of new Pokemon. The only thing that hasn't changed is the turn based combat and the fact that you collect gym badges. For the record, at least 1/3 of those were from Diamond and Pearl specifically.

And yes, I enjoyed that. Don't ever talk shit about a game you don't know anything about again, because I will rip you apart.


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Literally everything you mentioned were tiny differences: New Pokemon traits? Time of day changing? underwater diving? tv interviews? cooking? feeding? Pokemon changing in weather? Really? You consider these huge differences? They sound like side-games and tiny adjustments to me.

This is like saying an extra weapon in a GTA game would be a huge difference or that you actually break into a car instead of stealing it is a turning point in the franchise...

All minor details. GTA had mini side missions and games too, doesn't mean it changed much. I'm sure if I sat down and started nitpicking every minor change I could list a lot of tiny new things that changed between GTAs.

Though I guess if you consider these small differences significant then Pokemon has changed. It wouldn't surprise me for a Pokemon fan to think these are actually big changes since the series barely changes at all.

By the way you put in online play in your argument even though I said that was a big change, continued next post.



Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!

naznatips said:
ckmlb said:
@Naznatips: what was so different in the new Pokemon besides online and more Pokemon???


Let me go through all the things that have changed in Pokemon since Red and Blue:

Dual types added, attacks separated into special and physical based on type, extra stats added, breeding, egg moves, new types, new type combinations which previously weren't possible, GBA insertion trading, equippable items, secret bases, mining, dolls and decorations, attacks separated into special and physical based on individual moves instead of types, 3D world, instrumental music, heavily increased graphics, diving underwater, online play, online trading, times of day added (Early morning, morning, noon, afternoon, evening, and night), time specific pokemon occurances (some are in specifc spots on certain days of the week or at certain times of day), time specific evolutions, split path evolutions, dual evolutions (One pokemon becomes 2 like Ninjask and Nincada), double battles, Pokemon contests, Pokemon contest moves, pokemon contest stats (beauty, coolness, etc.), ribbons, pokeball tossing effects, pokeball stickers, pokemon clothes and decorations, STAB attacks, 4X effective attacks, Pokemon genders, pokemon gender differences, Pokemon summoning cries and movements, ability passing onto baby pokemon, everstone holding to pass gender onto baby pokemon, new status conditions, double battle moves, new pokeballs, pokemon natures, pokemon EVs, Pokemon IVs, weather effects, pokemon who change types in the weather, pokemon in trees, berries, planting, Pokemon food (created by combining berries), cooking, the poketch (includes many never seen tools), pokemon daycares, TV interviews, the daily lottery, pokeball seals, voice chat in online play, capture the flag multiplayer in the underground, pokemon mail, Pokemon happiness and anger.

Oh, and a shitload of new Pokemon. The only thing that hasn't changed is the turn based combat and the fact that you collect gym badges. For the record, at least 1/3 of those were from Diamond and Pearl specifically.

And yes, I enjoyed that. Don't ever talk shit about a game you don't know anything about again, because I will rip you apart.


You know Naz, I generally agree with what you say but I can't back you up on this one. Now I don't play a lot of Pokemon but I did play Red and Blue back in the day and I picked up Diamond (or maybe Pearl, I forget/don't care) and the game really hadn't changed.

Yeah, they added things like gender, online, summoning cries, ect, but it was still the same game. If you just replaced the names of all the characters with the Red/Blue characters the story would have been exactly the same. The battle system, while good, hadn't really changed. It was still just a glorified rock paper scissors. I'm sorry, but it really was the same game just with new names and a few new systems.  The vast majority of those things listed are very minor changes or don't even affect gameplay.

That all being said, I'm a big believer in if it aint broke don't fix it. The Pokemon method works and it makes sense they don't change it, just don't get offended when people tell you its the same game that was released 10 years ago because it really is.



I'm sorry but the new pokemon games have changed a lot since blue/red. The GTA series, now in 3D, just keeps dropping you in different locations.



The worse part of your argument is that these minor changes occured over for generations of Pokemon games (7 of them) over 9 years, across 4 platforms.

If you actually take differences from one game to the next, they are even more microscopic. But in your hurry to make a big list of (minor) differences you gathered changes across all Pokemon games into one list even though I asked specifically for new things in the new Pokemon game.

Comparing all those games to 2 GTA games that came out in a matter of a couple of years is unfair, if you want compare all Pokemon games, across many platforms then you have to include GTA 1 and 2 in the comparison and I think we all know which series has changed more when you do that.

Even so, many of the changes you mentioned are actually returning features from older games and not even new in D&P. Pokemon Contests (from R&S), Time of day and day of week (from G&S), the Poffins that you bake (merely replacements for Pokeblocks from R&S) are all not new features but returning



Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!

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twesterm said:
naznatips said:
ckmlb said:
@Naznatips: what was so different in the new Pokemon besides online and more Pokemon???


Let me go through all the things that have changed in Pokemon since Red and Blue:

Dual types added, attacks separated into special and physical based on type, extra stats added, breeding, egg moves, new types, new type combinations which previously weren't possible, GBA insertion trading, equippable items, secret bases, mining, dolls and decorations, attacks separated into special and physical based on individual moves instead of types, 3D world, instrumental music, heavily increased graphics, diving underwater, online play, online trading, times of day added (Early morning, morning, noon, afternoon, evening, and night), time specific pokemon occurances (some are in specifc spots on certain days of the week or at certain times of day), time specific evolutions, split path evolutions, dual evolutions (One pokemon becomes 2 like Ninjask and Nincada), double battles, Pokemon contests, Pokemon contest moves, pokemon contest stats (beauty, coolness, etc.), ribbons, pokeball tossing effects, pokeball stickers, pokemon clothes and decorations, STAB attacks, 4X effective attacks, Pokemon genders, pokemon gender differences, Pokemon summoning cries and movements, ability passing onto baby pokemon, everstone holding to pass gender onto baby pokemon, new status conditions, double battle moves, new pokeballs, pokemon natures, pokemon EVs, Pokemon IVs, weather effects, pokemon who change types in the weather, pokemon in trees, berries, planting, Pokemon food (created by combining berries), cooking, the poketch (includes many never seen tools), pokemon daycares, TV interviews, the daily lottery, pokeball seals, voice chat in online play, capture the flag multiplayer in the underground, pokemon mail, Pokemon happiness and anger.

Oh, and a shitload of new Pokemon. The only thing that hasn't changed is the turn based combat and the fact that you collect gym badges. For the record, at least 1/3 of those were from Diamond and Pearl specifically.

And yes, I enjoyed that. Don't ever talk shit about a game you don't know anything about again, because I will rip you apart.


You know Naz, I generally agree with what you say but I can't back you up on this one. Now I don't play a lot of Pokemon but I did play Red and Blue back in the day and I picked up Diamond (or maybe Pearl, I forget/don't care) and the game really hadn't changed.

Yeah, they added things like gender, online, summoning cries, ect, but it was still the same game. If you just replaced the names of all the characters with the Red/Blue characters the story would have been exactly the same. The battle system, while good, hadn't really changed. It was still just a glorified rock paper scissors. I'm sorry, but it really was the same game just with new names and a few new systems.  The vast majority of those things listed are very minor changes or don't even affect gameplay.

That all being said, I'm a big believer in if it aint broke don't fix it. The Pokemon method works and it makes sense they don't change it, just don't get offended when people tell you its the same game that was released 10 years ago because it really is.


 I totally agree with Twestern (WOW).

You are way to much overreacting nazna.  It is just a game it is like they are attacking your wife or something I can understand that you love a game but loving it so much almost make it pathetic =/.

And I am really shocked that you answered my PM with  READ AND CRY!!!

Serious Nazna I am not going to cry because of this I rather feel sad that you got hurted so much because CKLMB said Pokemon games are always more of the same with every time some little extra's.

=/.






Double post edited. In summary, I will give you that I haven't played D&P extensively (maybe 10 hours) but I have played 3 Pokemon games (Red/Blue, Gold/Silver plus the new one) and that's enough to know that the series hasn't changed much. So your assumption that I was making stuff up was wrong. This is one of the most cashed in franchises out there and I wish you good luck on Pokemon Glitter and Vanilla, the remake of this one which I'm sure will come soon enough just as it has happened with every Pokemon game before it.



Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!

basically most of the games on the list are the same thing with different characters and locations. Where the heck are the new ideas. Wow another first person shooter, can't wait.



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ckmlb said:
The worse part of your argument is that these minor changes occured over for generations of Pokemon games (7 of them) over 9 years, across 4 platforms.

If you actually take differences from one game to the next, they are even more microscopic. But in your hurry to make a big list of (minor) differences you gathered changes across all Pokemon games into one list even though I asked specifically for new things in the new Pokemon game.

Comparing all those games to 2 GTA games that came out in a matter of a couple of years is unfair, if you want compare all Pokemon games, across many platforms then you have to include GTA 1 and 2 in the comparison and I think we all know which series has changed more when you do that.

Even so, many of the changes you mentioned are actually returning features from older games and not even new in D&P. Pokemon Contests (from R&S), Time of day and day of week (from G&S), the Poffins that you bake (merely replacements for Pokeblocks from R&S) are all not new features but returning

There have only been 3 generations of Pokemon changes ckmlb. So 3 games worth of changes versus 2. There is no major difference here. I only counted cooking once, and the list was all changes. You said the series rarely changed, and I showed you that it's changed over its life. Whether you consider those changes small or not really doesn't matter to me, because everything in Pokemon except turn based gameplay, team size, and the basic plot has changed. Those few things are what define Pokemon as a series anyway, but everything else has. Now, DP was not the majority of those changes. Most of them were RSE. That doesn't meant the series hasn't evolved since the beginning. Also, sorry Twesterm, but if you really think it's as simple as a rock paper scizors system then you really don't understand any of the depth of the combat system, and I recommend you trying playing online. Konnichiwa, first, that's not what I said. Don't change the message if you are going to try and quote it. I said go back to the topic, read, and then cry (meaning complain). Though I could have used better phrasing, my point was if you are going to complain about me defending pokemon (in reference to your first message) then at least see the evidence first. So, ckmlb, in summary: The Pokemon series has changed quite a bit outside of turn based combat, team size and plot. I have shown you all the things that have changed over the course of 3 major generations of Pokemon, and you still deny anything has changed.

As much as people like to talk about the Pro-Wii bias on this site, it was apparent that the pro-blow 'em up/shoot 'em up, anti-Wii bias in this list.

Only three Wii games. Did not indicate Spore was for Wii.
Did not include Dragon Quest (which it was trumping adding screen shots for).

Also, we should keep the list and see how many games actually see the light of day this year.

Mike from Morgantown.



      


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