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Forums - Microsoft - Lazard Capital Market analyst: Kinect to sell 2 million units per month

nobodyspecial said:

"And even if this was acceptable, how would you control a more complex game like DMC or NG? Raise your hand over your head to swing?"

Yes?

"Hop three times to do a flying swallow?"

Maybe, lol! Or there could be hand signals or various other ways I can't be bothered to think of for you.

So, assuming kinect can even read hand signals, to play NG I'm supposed to move around my living room making hand gestures- which I would assume would be one for each move- giving me a movelist that is about as complex as ASL (which kinect can't read anyway). Yes, very practical and not convuluted in the least.



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

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leatherhat said:
nobodyspecial said:

You find moving your feet to move complex? You find looking around or moving your hand to move a camera complex? You find pointing to aim and moving your fingers/thumb/hand in someway to shoot complex? How do you function in life and how the hell did you work out how to use a keyboard? Lol! And of course the Kinect is capable of all that and I wouldn't be surprised if some if not all of those things are featured in launch games. (One of the sports games has paintball which could use controls like that.)


Do you really think that its a practical replacement for a controller? If so more power to you, you're gonna need it when you dance all over your living room playing some basic shooter.

 

Who said it's a replacement for joypads? As far as I know if you buy a Kinect Microsoft won't come and confiscate all your other controllers, lol! It's a new controller experience that I hope developers will take full advantage of in the future. There will be games that you clearly couldn't imagine and probably some that I couldn't imagine either. I've got some great ideas including at least 2 ideas for things that aren't really games, but I'm not going to post them here! (Or anywhere else for that matter, at least not anytime soon.)



nobodyspecial said:
leatherhat said:
nobodyspecial said:

You find moving your feet to move complex? You find looking around or moving your hand to move a camera complex? You find pointing to aim and moving your fingers/thumb/hand in someway to shoot complex? How do you function in life and how the hell did you work out how to use a keyboard? Lol! And of course the Kinect is capable of all that and I wouldn't be surprised if some if not all of those things are featured in launch games. (One of the sports games has paintball which could use controls like that.)


Do you really think that its a practical replacement for a controller? If so more power to you, you're gonna need it when you dance all over your living room playing some basic shooter.

 

Who said it's a replacement for joypads? As far as I know if you buy a Kinect Microsoft won't come and confiscate all your other controllers, lol! It's a new controller experience that I hope developers will take full advantage of in the future. There will be games that you clearly couldn't imagine and probably some that I couldn't imagine either. I've got some great ideas including at least 2 ideas for things that aren't really games, but I'm not going to post them here! (Or anywhere else for that matter, at least not anytime soon.)


Its a limited experience. Which is what we are discussing.



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

leatherhat said:
nobodyspecial said:

"And even if this was acceptable, how would you control a more complex game like DMC or NG? Raise your hand over your head to swing?"

Yes?

"Hop three times to do a flying swallow?"

Maybe, lol! Or there could be hand signals or various other ways I can't be bothered to think of for you.

So, assuming kinect can even read hand signals, to play NG I'm supposed to move around my living room making hand gestures- which I would assume would be one for each move- giving me a movelist that is about as complex as ASL (which kinect can't read anyway). Yes, very practical and not convuluted in the least.


I'm pretty sure it can read hand signals, i don't mean fingers just different gestures with the hand like making a fist, waving, showing your palm, showing the back of your hand etc. You don't have to move around the room, think of an analogue stick, what do you do with it? You move your thumb around the surface, right? Now imagine your standing on a big (as in maybe a metre in diameter, not room sized) analogue stick so you just take one step in a direction (or maybe slide your foot) to move in that direction then step back to the middle to stop. You can swing your sword in all kinds of ways and maybe activate special moves with certain sword moves. Get an imagination already! (You do realise that Kinect tracks your full body in 3D and doesn't just have a limited set of gestures don't you?)



leatherhat said:
nobodyspecial said:

You find moving your feet to move complex? You find looking around or moving your hand to move a camera complex? You find pointing to aim and moving your fingers/thumb/hand in someway to shoot complex? How do you function in life and how the hell did you work out how to use a keyboard? Lol! And of course the Kinect is capable of all that and I wouldn't be surprised if some if not all of those things are featured in launch games. (One of the sports games has paintball which could use controls like that.)


Do you really think that its a practical replacement for a controller? If so more power to you, you're gonna need it when you dance all over your living room playing some basic shooter

Leatherhat is right, it makes absolutely no sense to use that method over a controller. Unless you want to loose weight that is.



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nobodyspecial said:
leatherhat said:
nobodyspecial said:

"And even if this was acceptable, how would you control a more complex game like DMC or NG? Raise your hand over your head to swing?"

Yes?

"Hop three times to do a flying swallow?"

Maybe, lol! Or there could be hand signals or various other ways I can't be bothered to think of for you.

So, assuming kinect can even read hand signals, to play NG I'm supposed to move around my living room making hand gestures- which I would assume would be one for each move- giving me a movelist that is about as complex as ASL (which kinect can't read anyway). Yes, very practical and not convuluted in the least.


I'm pretty sure it can read hand signals, i don't mean fingers just different gestures with the hand like making a fist, waving, showing your palm, showing the back of your hand etc. You don't have to move around the room, think of an analogue stick, what do you do with it? You move your thumb around the surface, right? Now imagine your standing on a big (as in maybe a metre in diameter, not room sized) analogue stick so you just take one step in a direction (or maybe slide your foot) to move in that direction then step back to the middle to stop. You can swing your sword in all kinds of ways and maybe activate special moves with certain sword moves. Get an imagination already! (You do realise that Kinect tracks your full body in 3D and doesn't just have a limited set of gestures don't you?)

Theres a difference between a concept and a fun game.



Icyedge said:
leatherhat said:
nobodyspecial said:

You find moving your feet to move complex? You find looking around or moving your hand to move a camera complex? You find pointing to aim and moving your fingers/thumb/hand in someway to shoot complex? How do you function in life and how the hell did you work out how to use a keyboard? Lol! And of course the Kinect is capable of all that and I wouldn't be surprised if some if not all of those things are featured in launch games. (One of the sports games has paintball which could use controls like that.)


Do you really think that its a practical replacement for a controller? If so more power to you, you're gonna need it when you dance all over your living room playing some basic shooter

Leatherhat is right, it makes absolutely no sense to use that method over a controller. Unless you want to loose weight that is.

Sorry to disappoint you but I seriously doubt you'd lose (not loose) much if any weight using my control method. You wouldn't be "dancing all over your living room" you'd be moving slightly more than playing a lightgun game like a Virtua Cop or House Of The Dead game. Or do you think that they play better using a joypad too? (That's a criticism I have of the Xbox360 actually, where the hell are the lightgun games and guns??!)

The Kinect isn't supposed to replace the joypad, at least not yet as it's just the first version of its type of controller. (3D body motion capture. I didn't say "full body" this time in case somebody nitpicks that it most likely can't track individual fingers.) It's an alternative controller that Microsoft is obviously using first to get into the casual motion control market but then (hopefully and sooner rather than later) to make games and gaming experiences that will only be possible with the type of controller that the Kinect is. In fact even the simple Ricochet game is only possible with Kinect because you're not just touching points on the screen in 2D space to hit the balls, the 3D motion capture allows you to actually hit/kick/head in 3D space and at different velocities so you can control the angle and speed/power at which the balls are hit. Now you'll probably say that can be done with the Wii but it can't because the Wii just has 1 thing to hit with whereas with Kinect you can use your whole body so therefore can hit more than 1 ball at once and use any parts of your body to hit them with.

I'm amazed that some of you have managed to go beyond playing Space Invaders if you're unable to grasp the concept and understand the potential of Kinect.



nobodyspecial said:
Icyedge said:
leatherhat said:
nobodyspecial said:

You find moving your feet to move complex? You find looking around or moving your hand to move a camera complex? You find pointing to aim and moving your fingers/thumb/hand in someway to shoot complex? How do you function in life and how the hell did you work out how to use a keyboard? Lol! And of course the Kinect is capable of all that and I wouldn't be surprised if some if not all of those things are featured in launch games. (One of the sports games has paintball which could use controls like that.)


Do you really think that its a practical replacement for a controller? If so more power to you, you're gonna need it when you dance all over your living room playing some basic shooter

Leatherhat is right, it makes absolutely no sense to use that method over a controller. Unless you want to loose weight that is.

Sorry to disappoint you but I seriously doubt you'd lose (not loose) much if any weight using my control method. You wouldn't be "dancing all over your living room" you'd be moving slightly more than playing a lightgun game like a Virtua Cop or House Of The Dead game. Or do you think that they play better using a joypad too? (That's a criticism I have of the Xbox360 actually, where the hell are the lightgun games and guns??!)

The Kinect isn't supposed to replace the joypad, at least not yet as it's just the first version of its type of controller. (3D body motion capture. I didn't say "full body" this time in case somebody nitpicks that it most likely can't track individual fingers.) It's an alternative controller that Microsoft is obviously using first to get into the casual motion control market but then (hopefully and sooner rather than later) to make games and gaming experiences that will only be possible with the type of controller that the Kinect is. In fact even the simple Ricochet game is only possible with Kinect because you're not just touching points on the screen in 2D space to hit the balls, the 3D motion capture allows you to actually hit/kick/head in 3D space and at different velocities so you can control the angle and speed/power at which the balls are hit. Now you'll probably say that can be done with the Wii but it can't because the Wii just has 1 thing to hit with whereas with Kinect you can use your whole body so therefore can hit more than 1 ball at once and use any parts of your body to hit them with.

I'm amazed that some of you have managed to go beyond playing Space Invaders if you're unable to grasp the concept and understand the potential of Kinect.


I dont really understand how your post reply to mine. Sure its only possible to do Ricochet on Kinect, I totally agree. There other games only possible with Kinect also. What I was saying is that its less efficient to control a type of game like FPS with Kinect instead of a controller. Adventure, RPG, FPS, TPS, Strategy, team sports (hockey, basket...), battle game (mortal combat, blazblue...) ect they would all be possible with Kinect, but the controller is simply more efficient.



Icyedge said:
nobodyspecial said:
Icyedge said:
leatherhat said:
nobodyspecial said:

You find moving your feet to move complex? You find looking around or moving your hand to move a camera complex? You find pointing to aim and moving your fingers/thumb/hand in someway to shoot complex? How do you function in life and how the hell did you work out how to use a keyboard? Lol! And of course the Kinect is capable of all that and I wouldn't be surprised if some if not all of those things are featured in launch games. (One of the sports games has paintball which could use controls like that.)


Do you really think that its a practical replacement for a controller? If so more power to you, you're gonna need it when you dance all over your living room playing some basic shooter

Leatherhat is right, it makes absolutely no sense to use that method over a controller. Unless you want to loose weight that is.

Sorry to disappoint you but I seriously doubt you'd lose (not loose) much if any weight using my control method. You wouldn't be "dancing all over your living room" you'd be moving slightly more than playing a lightgun game like a Virtua Cop or House Of The Dead game. Or do you think that they play better using a joypad too? (That's a criticism I have of the Xbox360 actually, where the hell are the lightgun games and guns??!)

The Kinect isn't supposed to replace the joypad, at least not yet as it's just the first version of its type of controller. (3D body motion capture. I didn't say "full body" this time in case somebody nitpicks that it most likely can't track individual fingers.) It's an alternative controller that Microsoft is obviously using first to get into the casual motion control market but then (hopefully and sooner rather than later) to make games and gaming experiences that will only be possible with the type of controller that the Kinect is. In fact even the simple Ricochet game is only possible with Kinect because you're not just touching points on the screen in 2D space to hit the balls, the 3D motion capture allows you to actually hit/kick/head in 3D space and at different velocities so you can control the angle and speed/power at which the balls are hit. Now you'll probably say that can be done with the Wii but it can't because the Wii just has 1 thing to hit with whereas with Kinect you can use your whole body so therefore can hit more than 1 ball at once and use any parts of your body to hit them with.

I'm amazed that some of you have managed to go beyond playing Space Invaders if you're unable to grasp the concept and understand the potential of Kinect.


I dont really understand how your post reply to mine. Sure its only possible to do Ricochet on Kinect, I totally agree. There other games only possible with Kinect also. What I was saying is that its less efficient to control a type of game like FPS with Kinect instead of a controller. Adventure, RPG, FPS, TPS, Strategy, team sports (hockey, basket...), battle game (mortal combat, blazblue...) ect they would all be possible with Kinect, but the controller is simply more efficient.


FPS games are trying to emulate being inside the player. If the controller is the player themselves rather than a joypad being controlled by the player in a not very realistic way then how can the controller be more efficient? So do you think that a controller is a more efficient way to play lightgun games than a lightgun itself? If you mean efficient as in using less energy by moving less then using a joypad is more efficient than using a steering wheel and pedals but many people prefer to play driving games using a steering wheel and pedals because it's more realistic and more fun to them. And I've never played Guitar Hero or Rock Band but I'm guessing that it would be more "efficient" to play them with a joypad rather than the intrument controllers?



nobodyspecial said:
Icyedge said:
nobodyspecial said:
Icyedge said:
leatherhat said:
nobodyspecial said:

You find moving your feet to move complex? You find looking around or moving your hand to move a camera complex? You find pointing to aim and moving your fingers/thumb/hand in someway to shoot complex? How do you function in life and how the hell did you work out how to use a keyboard? Lol! And of course the Kinect is capable of all that and I wouldn't be surprised if some if not all of those things are featured in launch games. (One of the sports games has paintball which could use controls like that.)


Do you really think that its a practical replacement for a controller? If so more power to you, you're gonna need it when you dance all over your living room playing some basic shooter

Leatherhat is right, it makes absolutely no sense to use that method over a controller. Unless you want to loose weight that is.

Sorry to disappoint you but I seriously doubt you'd lose (not loose) much if any weight using my control method. You wouldn't be "dancing all over your living room" you'd be moving slightly more than playing a lightgun game like a Virtua Cop or House Of The Dead game. Or do you think that they play better using a joypad too? (That's a criticism I have of the Xbox360 actually, where the hell are the lightgun games and guns??!)

The Kinect isn't supposed to replace the joypad, at least not yet as it's just the first version of its type of controller. (3D body motion capture. I didn't say "full body" this time in case somebody nitpicks that it most likely can't track individual fingers.) It's an alternative controller that Microsoft is obviously using first to get into the casual motion control market but then (hopefully and sooner rather than later) to make games and gaming experiences that will only be possible with the type of controller that the Kinect is. In fact even the simple Ricochet game is only possible with Kinect because you're not just touching points on the screen in 2D space to hit the balls, the 3D motion capture allows you to actually hit/kick/head in 3D space and at different velocities so you can control the angle and speed/power at which the balls are hit. Now you'll probably say that can be done with the Wii but it can't because the Wii just has 1 thing to hit with whereas with Kinect you can use your whole body so therefore can hit more than 1 ball at once and use any parts of your body to hit them with.

I'm amazed that some of you have managed to go beyond playing Space Invaders if you're unable to grasp the concept and understand the potential of Kinect.


I dont really understand how your post reply to mine. Sure its only possible to do Ricochet on Kinect, I totally agree. There other games only possible with Kinect also. What I was saying is that its less efficient to control a type of game like FPS with Kinect instead of a controller. Adventure, RPG, FPS, TPS, Strategy, team sports (hockey, basket...), battle game (mortal combat, blazblue...) ect they would all be possible with Kinect, but the controller is simply more efficient.


FPS games are trying to emulate being inside the player. If the controller is the player themselves rather than a joypad being controlled by the player in a not very realistic way then how can the controller be more efficient? So do you think that a controller is a more efficient way to play lightgun games than a lightgun itself? If you mean efficient as in using less energy by moving less then using a joypad is more efficient than using a steering wheel and pedals but many people prefer to play driving games using a steering wheel and pedals because it's more realistic and more fun to them. And I've never played Guitar Hero or Rock Band but I'm guessing that it would be more "efficient" to play them with a joypad rather than the intrument controllers?

Im sorry but your comparison doesnt have anything to do with the control of a FPS. In a FPS, you need to control the camera and make your character run, until we have screen all around us and a sliding circular mat on which you can run in all direction get back to me.