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Forums - General - Why don't you believe in a god?

sapphi_snake said:
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But if we are slaves to its whims mechanically then we do not have free will, and if we do have free will why should we be slaves to its whims?

Typically, the threat of judgement and hell.

ALet's be honest, even the religious have never really had any concrete proof that they're deities are really are all-powerfull or all-knowing,

They've never had concrete proof of anything. My point was, though, that 'Do you believe God expects certain behaviour' is a more valuable question about someone's beliefs than whether they believe in a God, because only the former has consequences.

other that the words of said deity in the first place (which would not be a reliable source, and of course this goes by the assumption that such a being exists in the first place). We are sentient beigns, why should we listen to any such entity? Nad the concepts of "all-powerfull" and "all-knowing" are themselves ridiculous.

Yeah, I know, but the word 'God' typically implies those qualities. If one's God doesn't have them, there's not much point in believing in it or worshipping it.

I see what you're trying to say, but all of these religious debates start from the premise that an all-knowing, all-powerful God worthy of worship is at least a plausible concept. Whether that's true or not.



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sapphi_snake said:
Soleron said:
sapphi_snake said:
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Even if such a beign existed and  did have such expectations of us, would it really matter? I mean just because this beign created us does it mean that we must be slaves to its whims?

If we are to keep the definition of God as an all-powerful, all-knowing universe creator that is worthy of eligious worship, yes.

If a being existed like that where we weren't "slaves to its whims" it wouldn't be God. It would be a universe-creating alien conciousness. Which is interesting but not really implied by the word god.

But if we are slaves to its whims mechanically then we do not have free will, and if we do have free will why should we be slaves to its whims? ALet's be honest, even the religious have never really had any concrete proof that they're deities are really are all-powerfull or all-knowing, other that the words of said deity in the first place (which would not be a reliable source, and of course this goes by the assumption that such a being exists in the first place). We are sentient beigns, why should we listen to any such entity? Nad the concepts of "all-powerfull" and "all-knowing" are themselves ridiculous.

Ok I'm a Christian so judge me If you don't like that I don't believe in God. But actually to be truthful I didn't believe in him at one point either. Ok first, since when are we slaves to God's whim? Thats not true. I'm pretty no one is controlling you right now or making you do something. That already is free will. All God asked for is one day out of the whole week. So basically he gives you six days to basically do whatever you want (although praying every now shouldn't be much) and then he asks that you honor the Sabbath Day (Sunday) in his name. 

2. The Bible is our proof of God. Its a powerful piece of work.

3. When you say we are sentient beings why should we listen to any such entity, I assume you mean God. Well lets put if you have a son or daughter one day I'm pretty sure you're going to want he/she to listen to you. Same concept.



NINTENDO

nintendo forever . . .

So I have yet to see a good answer as to why we should listen to God and belive in him and not fairies and unicorns and cyclops and other such creatures which have exactly as much evidence as any god in any religion.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:

So I have yet to see a good answer as to why we should listen to God and belive in him and not fairies and unicorns and cyclops and other such creatures which have exactly as much evidence as any god in any religion.

That's ok. Nobody's forcing you to believe in anything. You choose to believe in what you want that's sorta how free will works. If you don't believe in God now, most likely you're not going to believe in him later. Most people don't change.



NINTENDO

nintendo forever . . .

ManusJustus said:
Chairman-Mao said:

I do believe in a God because something had to create the world. I find it hard to believe a "big bang" created a world and made life possible, that just sounds stupid to me.

Yeah, because an magical, invisible man makes much more sense.


ManusJustus you're being silly. 1. Who ever told you he was an invisible man? Have you never pondered how life itself came about? Or do you just sit there and say I don't know science and it's thousands of theories will eventually prove it. Or maybe you think to yourself, "I don't care." Because if you did that would be ignorant. I mean there is nothing wrong with science, I love science myself and I like to learn about the universe. But that doesn't mean that one day a scientist is going to fly to the "end of space" and come back with an answer.



NINTENDO

nintendo forever . . .

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theARTIST0017 said:
vlad321 said:

So I have yet to see a good answer as to why we should listen to God and belive in him and not fairies and unicorns and cyclops and other such creatures which have exactly as much evidence as any god in any religion.

That's ok. Nobody's forcing you to believe in anything. You choose to believe in what you want that's sorta how free will works. If you don't believe in God now, most likely you're not going to believe in him later. Most people don't change.

What makes you think you have free will?

God or not there is no such thing as free will, the timeline of the universe is determined at it's very beginning (though that's not the beginning of time, just the universe, the big bang is the beginning of our universe because any event before the big bang would not have any effect on what happened after that event so therefore it is irrelevant to our universe just as our universe will have no effect upon the next one after the big crunch and next big bang.)

Oh and your bit about people not changing is totally wrong, people changes religions and belief systems all the time.  I was raised Roman catholic, studied buddhism breifly, then settled on an atheistic worldview which accepts logical assertions such as panpsychism versus eliminative materialism; either one is logically sound so I accept them both as possibilities. 

Studies show less than 1/2 of all Americans stay with the faith they were brought up in, most change once or twice in their lives.



theARTIST0017 said:
vlad321 said:

So I have yet to see a good answer as to why we should listen to God and belive in him and not fairies and unicorns and cyclops and other such creatures which have exactly as much evidence as any god in any religion.

That's ok. Nobody's forcing you to believe in anything. You choose to believe in what you want that's sorta how free will works. If you don't believe in God now, most likely you're not going to believe in him later. Most people don't change.

Why does God creating the universe mean we should do what he says though? Because of the threat of hell if we don't?

--

@Armads

What happens to that statistic if you remove:

- Those changing from one type of Christianity to another, since the belief in God and Jesus remains so it isn't a change of faith as much, more a change of approach to worship.
- Those changing in order to get married, since it's probable they didn't do that freely.
- Those changing immediately after leaving their parents, since it's likely they believed the other thing all along and didn't want to admit it.

At a guess, that would remove a lot of changes. I'm speculating, but I think free-choice changes of religion are quite rare.



theARTIST0017 said:
vlad321 said:

So I have yet to see a good answer as to why we should listen to God and belive in him and not fairies and unicorns and cyclops and other such creatures which have exactly as much evidence as any god in any religion.

That's ok. Nobody's forcing you to believe in anything. You choose to believe in what you want that's sorta how free will works. If you don't believe in God now, most likely you're not going to believe in him later. Most people don't change.

You did not answer my questoin at all. Why do you believe in God instead of Centaurs or faries? There is jsut as much backing for those things as there is your God. In fact in the case of dragons, there is more backing for them than there is for your god, and that is 100% guaranteed.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Soleron said:
theARTIST0017 said:
vlad321 said:

So I have yet to see a good answer as to why we should listen to God and belive in him and not fairies and unicorns and cyclops and other such creatures which have exactly as much evidence as any god in any religion.

That's ok. Nobody's forcing you to believe in anything. You choose to believe in what you want that's sorta how free will works. If you don't believe in God now, most likely you're not going to believe in him later. Most people don't change.

Why does God creating the universe mean we should do what he says though? Because of the threat of hell if we don't?

--

@Armads

What happens to that statistic if you remove:

- Those changing from one type of Christianity to another, since the belief in God and Jesus remains so it isn't a change of faith as much, more a change of approach to worship.
- Those changing in order to get married, since it's probable they didn't do that freely.
- Those changing immediately after leaving their parents, since it's likely they believed the other thing all along and didn't want to admit it.

At a guess, that would remove a lot of changes. I'm speculating, but I think free-choice changes of religion are quite rare.

 

I'd have to get back to you on that and find a more specific source that separates them accordingly.  However I still believe I am correct in my judgement that his statement is wrong about people most likely not questioning their belief in a god/gods.  I don't think that the atheist population has been growing so rapidly (and it has been growing quite quickly) because of a sudden burst of atheist family reproduction but rather I believe that most atheists converted from other faiths.  Out of all the atheists I've ever met in my life I only know of one who was raised by atheistic parents and was never introduced to religion, but anectdotal evidence doesn't count for much I know. (funnily she decided to take a course at a community college about the Bible as literature and was astounded at the zealotry and fanaticism that was displayed in her christian classmates who did not come to the class to discuss the Bible as a piece of literature but rather to discuss theology [and did so quite adamnatly despite the teacher's assertions that was not the point of the class])

 

Once people are shown the light so to speak they will change their views, some remain willfully ingorant but most just haven't been educated in the areas of philosophy, physics, geology, and other fields of study that question the beliefs they've been fed.  There are many stories out there of people who were adamantly believers who then later came to question and eventually abandon their faith entirely when they were made to truly think about it.



Religion revolves around mankind, while mankind and the Earth are practically just a grain of sand in the vastness of the entire universe. So for me that basically makes religion implausible from the start.