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Forums - General - Inception was AMAZING (spoilers)

Fumanchu said:
Reasonable said:
Fumanchu said:

I find the whole concept of totems is such an annoying and unexplained paradox.  It contradicts the ideology presented in the movie that you can't consciously be aware of something 'strange' until you wake up, so how could you then possibly assign 'strange' physics properties to an object subconsciously?

I really like the idea that the ending is Nolan's inception on the audience.  He plants the seed of doubt to make you question its reality, through the totem and other red herrings throughout the film supporting either side.

I also like the fact that Cobb doesn't wait around for the totem to stop, meaning it doesn't matter as long as he's happy and with his children.

I thought the Totem's were a nice idea.  On one hand, purely functional, they were a nice way of recognizing that, if you could enter a dream state, you'd need some way to feel sure you had returned to normal waking reality.

They also clearly helped position one of the film's key concepts, that we mediate reality in our memory via defined objects and moments - our own store of Totem's.  In this regard Mal's Totem, which Cobb takes for his own, nicely symbolizes his position and inability to let go of his past life with her and move on.

I would imagine you'd very much need something like a Totem if you where ever going to plunge into any VR or dream type state if it was really so real that you might find yourself unsure about whether you ever returned.

I think you miss my point - I also think the totems were crucial for the audience in illustrating the questioning of reality concept and gives a nice simple, visual explanation.  What I take offense to is the unstated logic that allows the individual to be consciously aware of this one objects behaviour to be able to provide them of this validation.        

I see.  But the dreamers are always concious, so far as I could tell, that they'd been inserted into a dream (unless they end up in Limbo) - therefore in the dream they would be perfectly aware of their Totem and it's function and hence able to validate whether they were in a dream or not, wouldn't they?  Only in Limbo, after the passage of a lot of (percieved not real) time where any dreamers shown to have forgotten themselves and their Totem's function.

I did feel that there was no reason given why a Totem would only function correctly while awake.  There seemed to reason the Totem wouldn't, if dreamt properly, function just the same in a dream, leaving the owner completely adrift.

But hey, a made up world has made up rules so I guess you can nit pick too far.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

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Reasonable said:
Fumanchu said:
Reasonable said:
Fumanchu said:

I find the whole concept of totems is such an annoying and unexplained paradox.  It contradicts the ideology presented in the movie that you can't consciously be aware of something 'strange' until you wake up, so how could you then possibly assign 'strange' physics properties to an object subconsciously?

I really like the idea that the ending is Nolan's inception on the audience.  He plants the seed of doubt to make you question its reality, through the totem and other red herrings throughout the film supporting either side.

I also like the fact that Cobb doesn't wait around for the totem to stop, meaning it doesn't matter as long as he's happy and with his children.

I thought the Totem's were a nice idea.  On one hand, purely functional, they were a nice way of recognizing that, if you could enter a dream state, you'd need some way to feel sure you had returned to normal waking reality.

They also clearly helped position one of the film's key concepts, that we mediate reality in our memory via defined objects and moments - our own store of Totem's.  In this regard Mal's Totem, which Cobb takes for his own, nicely symbolizes his position and inability to let go of his past life with her and move on.

I would imagine you'd very much need something like a Totem if you where ever going to plunge into any VR or dream type state if it was really so real that you might find yourself unsure about whether you ever returned.

I think you miss my point - I also think the totems were crucial for the audience in illustrating the questioning of reality concept and gives a nice simple, visual explanation.  What I take offense to is the unstated logic that allows the individual to be consciously aware of this one objects behaviour to be able to provide them of this validation.        

I see.  But the dreamers are always concious, so far as I could tell, that they'd been inserted into a dream (unless they end up in Limbo) - therefore in the dream they would be perfectly aware of their Totem and it's function and hence able to validate whether they were in a dream or not, wouldn't they?  Only in Limbo, after the passage of a lot of (percieved not real) time where any dreamers shown to have forgotten themselves and their Totem's function.

I did feel that there was no reason given why a Totem would only function correctly while awake.  There seemed to reason the Totem wouldn't, if dreamt properly, function just the same in a dream, leaving the owner completely adrift.

But hey, a made up world has made up rules so I guess you can nit pick too far.

Exactly - thus defeating the purpose of the totems altogether. 

You could say that I'm nitpicking - but there's so much weight given to these objects as providing 100% full proof evidence of what state of consciousness you're in.  I really feel like we're missing a couple of deleted scenes detailing how they upload unique characteristics to their totems to the mysterious brief case and how exactly the architect uploads the dreams (mazes) to the dreamers...



I think we're on the same page, here.

I actually think, if I were to nitpick, that it would be well on impossible - assuming the ability to experience a dream state that was totally convincing - to truly have something like a Totem to differentiate between being awake or asleep.

In fact, the real proof would be whether you can/can't modify your surroundings at will.

I'm therefore taking the Totem's at face value in terms of what Nolan intended them to do, based on made up rules, against my own "if it were real" nit picking.  The Totem's work within the context of the film, but whether they would really work... well, that's a different story IMHO.

The top I felt, for example, was a pretty weak Totem.  Only Arthur's die, out of the Totem's I noted, seemed to 'work' well within the concept.

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

I did my thesis on dreams and architecture so this movie was especially interesting to me. This movie succeeded on levels which other movies of its kind have failed.

There is so much room for error and cheeziness in a movie which focuses on the dream.

The concept of the dream and any form of artistic expression regarding it, is emphasized through the use of film, and I think Nolan invented or at least acurately expressed those filmic expressions which only the dream can properly facilitate.

the simultaneous uses of time were amazing. The pacing device of the van falling into the river was also amazing.

This movie rocked sooooo hard. I loved it, and it is a crime that Leo has never gotten best actor.

Think about all the movies he deserves it for, this movie better be nominated for the acadamy award.



̶3̶R̶D̶   2ND! Place has never been so sweet.


inception is amazing, but it aint mind blowing, its my 2nd favorite movie of all time, just behind the game. that was an amazing movie, and if none of you saw it you should. inception gave me a migrane god it was so complex, i loved the story, i even had some tears at the end. only thing i hated about the movie was cobbs personality, well i guess that it shaped the movie.



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Amazing!! No. Very good, most definitely. I love Leo as an actor, but this isn't any where near his best performance, if he gets an Oscar for this it'll be because he missed out on past performances that were soooo much better. Leo and Depp are likely to be the best actors never to win a best actor award. But you never know, Tom Hanks went from goofball to multi-Oscar winner, so it could happen.

The Matrix still wins for the way it played around with the concept of reality. Though it went down hill and they totally lost the plot with the third movie. I hope Inception is a one off, because I don't think they can repeat it as well a 2nd time. Really glad to see it succeed at the box office. A pity it's not going to out perform some of the drek it's sharing the multiplexs with at the moment.

Personally, I don't think the totem will stop spinning.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix