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Forums - General - Inception was AMAZING (spoilers)

Fumanchu said:

I find the whole concept of totems is such an annoying and unexplained paradox.  It contradicts the ideology presented in the movie that you can't consciously be aware of something 'strange' until you wake up, so how could you then possibly assign 'strange' physics properties to an object subconsciously?

I really like the idea that the ending is Nolan's inception on the audience.  He plants the seed of doubt to make you question its reality, through the totem and other red herrings throughout the film supporting either side.

I also like the fact that Cobb doesn't wait around for the totem to stop, meaning it doesn't matter as long as he's happy and with his children.

I thought the Totem's were a nice idea.  On one hand, purely functional, they were a nice way of recognizing that, if you could enter a dream state, you'd need some way to feel sure you had returned to normal waking reality.

They also clearly helped position one of the film's key concepts, that we mediate reality in our memory via defined objects and moments - our own store of Totem's.  In this regard Mal's Totem, which Cobb takes for his own, nicely symbolizes his position and inability to let go of his past life with her and move on.

I would imagine you'd very much need something like a Totem if you where ever going to plunge into any VR or dream type state if it was really so real that you might find yourself unsure about whether you ever returned.



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Fumanchu said:

I find the whole concept of totems is such an annoying and unexplained paradox.  It contradicts the ideology presented in the movie that you can't consciously be aware of something 'strange' until you wake up, so how could you then possibly assign 'strange' physics properties to an object subconsciously?

I really like the idea that the ending is Nolan's inception on the audience.  He plants the seed of doubt to make you question its reality, through the totem and other red herrings throughout the film supporting either side.

I also like the fact that Cobb doesn't wait around for the totem to stop, meaning it doesn't matter as long as he's happy and with his children.

about the totem,

perhaps I m misunderstanding your post but, totem are only usefull to the "dream investigator team" that are supposed to know they are in a dream but may want, if the situation turns bad, to make a test with their totem.

At the opposite, Fisher Jr, that is trapped in his dream, is completely unconscient that he is dreaming and is not aware about the totem concept.



Time to Work !

I thought it was bad since the plot made no sense to me at all. The movie also seemed like it dragged on and on. I thought predators which i saw first was a much better movie. 



I loved this movie Christopher Nolan has slowly become Spielberg like in his movie quality. Or maybe he is more like  James Cameron someone who makes only a few movies but they are all generally good quality.

Or maybe is something else, I mean he has made 9 films one was a collection of 16 student films and 2 were very small budget films. So out of his 6 major films 5 are in imdb top 250 films of all time list. That just might be unprecedented. 

 



libellule said:
Fumanchu said:

I find the whole concept of totems is such an annoying and unexplained paradox.  It contradicts the ideology presented in the movie that you can't consciously be aware of something 'strange' until you wake up, so how could you then possibly assign 'strange' physics properties to an object subconsciously?

I really like the idea that the ending is Nolan's inception on the audience.  He plants the seed of doubt to make you question its reality, through the totem and other red herrings throughout the film supporting either side.

I also like the fact that Cobb doesn't wait around for the totem to stop, meaning it doesn't matter as long as he's happy and with his children.

about the totem,

perhaps I m misunderstanding your post but, totem are only usefull to the "dream investigator team" that are supposed to know they are in a dream but may want, if the situation turns bad, to make a test with their totem.

At the opposite, Fisher Jr, that is trapped in his dream, is completely unconscient that he is dreaming and is not aware about the totem concept.


I think you are misunderstanding - maybe my post and the film (if I may be so bold)!

The Totem serves two primary functions

- the first is to be used when awake to confirm you are no longer in a dream.  The logical proposition is that, without a Totem, you would soon become completely unsure if you where awake or not and lose touch with reality.  Clearly not a good idea - hence the idea of Totem's for anyone entering anothers' dreams.  This is a central concept concerning Limbo and Mal obviously.

- the second is the inverse of this and is to confirm you are in a dream (which is the use you mention).  This is also important of course although in the film the emphasis I felt was on the test for being awake as the most important.

 

Ficher, who I didn't mention (or don't think I did), is not completely unaware that he is dreaming in fact.  As noted in the film he has been trained to automatically recognize the signs of being in a dream and to fight back.  Hence the team are attacked immediately they enter his dream state and when Cobb approaches him he is very, very suspicious as to what's going on.  This is why Cobb tries the gambit (quite cute I thought) of informing Ficher that he is indeed asleep and that others are indeed trying to steal his secrets.  Basically confirming his suspicions but directing them away from Cobb himself and his team.

Obviously, given Ficher (Fischer, Fisher, can't remember spelling actually, anyway, doesn't matter) has been trained to combat industrial espionage via dreams he would no doubt be well versed in something to emblic as a Totem and it's role.

 

 



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Reasonable said:
libellule said:
Fumanchu said:

I find the whole concept of totems is such an annoying and unexplained paradox.  It contradicts the ideology presented in the movie that you can't consciously be aware of something 'strange' until you wake up, so how could you then possibly assign 'strange' physics properties to an object subconsciously?

I really like the idea that the ending is Nolan's inception on the audience.  He plants the seed of doubt to make you question its reality, through the totem and other red herrings throughout the film supporting either side.

I also like the fact that Cobb doesn't wait around for the totem to stop, meaning it doesn't matter as long as he's happy and with his children.

about the totem,

perhaps I m misunderstanding your post but, totem are only usefull to the "dream investigator team" that are supposed to know they are in a dream but may want, if the situation turns bad, to make a test with their totem.

At the opposite, Fisher Jr, that is trapped in his dream, is completely unconscient that he is dreaming and is not aware about the totem concept.


I think you are misunderstanding - maybe my post and the film (if I may be so bold)!

The Totem serves two primary functions

- the first is to be used when awake to confirm you are no longer in a dream.  The logical proposition is that, without a Totem, you would soon become completely unsure if you where awake or not and lose touch with reality.  Clearly not a good idea - hence the idea of Totem's for anyone entering anothers' dreams.  This is a central concept concerning Limbo and Mal obviously.

- the second is the inverse of this and is to confirm you are in a dream (which is the use you mention).  This is also important of course although in the film the emphasis I felt was on the test for being awake as the most important.

 

Ficher, who I didn't mention (or don't think I did), is not completely unaware that he is dreaming in fact.  As noted in the film he has been trained to automatically recognize the signs of being in a dream and to fight back.  Hence the team are attacked immediately they enter his dream state and when Cobb approaches him he is very, very suspicious as to what's going on.  This is why Cobb tries the gambit (quite cute I thought) of informing Ficher that he is indeed asleep and that others are indeed trying to steal his secrets.  Basically confirming his suspicions but directing them away from Cobb himself and his team.

Obviously, given Ficher (Fischer, Fisher, can't remember spelling actually, anyway, doesn't matter) has been trained to combat industrial espionage via dreams he would no doubt be well versed in something to emblic as a Totem and it's role.

 

 

 

but yeah, obviously, you are right. totem can be used to test a dream or the reality and depending on their behaviour they will inform you about where you truly are.

Neverthless, to me, when the dream occur there is clearly 2 type of person : the ones that are aware (usually Cobb and co) and the dreamer that is unaware (here Fisher). If Cobb and co know the level and have planned their next move (from the falling car (L1) to the falling lift (L2) for example), Fisher seems to be absolutely unaware he is dreaming until his discussion with Cobb. His military defense are all driven "unconsciensly" (consequence of his training "anti-extraction") but the action of using your totem need yourself to "have doubt" and to question the reality of your universe. 
Perhaps, he mets Cobb before asking himself the question.
Perhaps he has no totem ... that would be strange considering he has been trained (that is what you were saying)
Indeed, the best way Cobb could have convinced Fisher he was dreaming was to ask him to use his own totem ...



Time to Work !

It was very good...probably going to get a best picture nod, along with others like best director and screenplay.  A very tight script, with almsot no noticable plot holes.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

what if the entire movie was about an inception on saito( to give back cobb his freedom), he never actually woke up in the train he was just tranferred in a deeper level, then they forced him to work with them, by making him think he had the upper hand by offring cobb a job.

level 1: the scene where cobb plays mister charles

level 2: the sccene were there's a riot outside

level 3: saito gives a job to cobb

level 4: they enters fishers mind but they actually still in saito's

level 5: in the hotel (still inside saito's mind)

level 6: inside the big military base

level 7: limbo (cha cha cha)

notice how after fisher got shot when he was revived he walk as if nothing happenned but it wasn't the case for saito, also cobb kept saying you need to go deep for an inception and fisher his probable not the son of a rich guy he's just an other member of the squad. I also think the only scene where they are awake is in the 747 in the end, also notice how saito is the last one to wake up... also why would they team up saito with fisher on level 6 it doesn't seem right to me unless fisher is actually in the team, I would explain my idea better but I sox at writting in english and.... also french

ps: notice how the first thing saito does after waking up is making a phone call



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Reasonable said:
Fumanchu said:

I find the whole concept of totems is such an annoying and unexplained paradox.  It contradicts the ideology presented in the movie that you can't consciously be aware of something 'strange' until you wake up, so how could you then possibly assign 'strange' physics properties to an object subconsciously?

I really like the idea that the ending is Nolan's inception on the audience.  He plants the seed of doubt to make you question its reality, through the totem and other red herrings throughout the film supporting either side.

I also like the fact that Cobb doesn't wait around for the totem to stop, meaning it doesn't matter as long as he's happy and with his children.

I thought the Totem's were a nice idea.  On one hand, purely functional, they were a nice way of recognizing that, if you could enter a dream state, you'd need some way to feel sure you had returned to normal waking reality.

They also clearly helped position one of the film's key concepts, that we mediate reality in our memory via defined objects and moments - our own store of Totem's.  In this regard Mal's Totem, which Cobb takes for his own, nicely symbolizes his position and inability to let go of his past life with her and move on.

I would imagine you'd very much need something like a Totem if you where ever going to plunge into any VR or dream type state if it was really so real that you might find yourself unsure about whether you ever returned.

I think you miss my point - I also think the totems were crucial for the audience in illustrating the questioning of reality concept and gives a nice simple, visual explanation.  What I take offense to is the unstated logic that allows the individual to be consciously aware of this one objects behaviour to be able to provide them of this validation.        



Inception is AMAZING, BRILLIANT, MIND BLOWING, PHENOMENAL, INTENSE, EXCEPTIONAL, Do I need to go on?

Inception is the best movie I've watched since The Dark Knight back in 2008 and what a suprise... Both movies are directed and written by Christopher Nolan :D

Do I need to go on to show much I love Christopher Nolan's films? I think you get the point.

My Favourite Movie of all Time is still The Dark Knight however Inception is very close behind.

I've watched The Dark Knight 5 Times in Cinemas in a period of a Month. Watched it with family and various friends. That's how much I lived The Dark Knight.

I expect to see Inception again in the Cinemas again and wish to be mind blown again by the Brilliance and Excellence of Inception!!!