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Forums - General - (Deputy Prime Minister) Nick Clegg: UK a 'more liberal nation' by 2015

NoddyHolder said:
Kasz216 said:
NoddyHolder said:
SamuelRSmith said:

Because there are no private sector alternatives to David Cameron's job. The wage for a public sector worker working for, say the Treasury, is high because they need to compete with the wages offered by the financial institutions. Those jobs require a similar skill set and education, so the Treasury needs to make it worthwhile for the people to choose working for them over working for, say, Goldman Sachs, or Barclays Investment.

The same goes for high level public sector workers across the board. The NHS is competing with Bupa for health care specialists, but also just for managerial jobs in general with the private sector.

simple solution, ban private healthcare. (education too)

So everyone is instead stuck with the standard shitty options... rigggggght.

Oh, and also... government now has no incentive to improve those shitty options since they now have no competition.

Brilliant idea.

they will improve them because people will want better education, and in a decent democracy, the government will listen and invest and impove both healthcare and education.

if you are saying that the USA/UK are not decent democracies, then I agree.

No... most people won't want a better education.  At least not if it's going to cost them money.  Have you never lived in a community that had to pass a school levy before?

The people who want better education tend to stop at people with kids when it comes to the votes.  Even then plenty of said group doesn't want to vote for it because of the horrible way most schools spend school levies.

With no Private schools there will be no frame of refrence for "better"... people will think it's fine.

Private institutions show the ineefficencies and flaws of public ones.

Afterall if private companies do a better job cheaper AND make a profit you know something is wrong with the public versions.



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NoddyHolder said:
Machina said:
NoddyHolder said:
SamuelRSmith said:

Because there are no private sector alternatives to David Cameron's job. The wage for a public sector worker working for, say the Treasury, is high because they need to compete with the wages offered by the financial institutions. Those jobs require a similar skill set and education, so the Treasury needs to make it worthwhile for the people to choose working for them over working for, say, Goldman Sachs, or Barclays Investment.

The same goes for high level public sector workers across the board. The NHS is competing with Bupa for health care specialists, but also just for managerial jobs in general with the private sector.

simple solution, ban private healthcare. (education too)

You want to ban private health care because specialist and managerial staff in the NHS are paid too much?

yep, Healthcare is NOT about making money, its about providing a public service, same with Education, you dont need a private sector.

Yes, you do. If I can afford to pay for an alternative to the NHS which refuses its patients medication because it's too expensive, and if I can afford to pay for a better education, I have the right to both of those things.

If you ban everything in the private sector, you have Communism, and see how that's worked out over history.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Ironically it is far better for the NHS that people go private. Regardless if they use the system or not they are still paying taxes which go towards it's funding. It is already losing millions by the day anyway, if all the private users switched then they would have to shell out yet more for treatments and costing even more money. I think it is in the best interest of the NHS that the private sector option is there.



Kantor said:
NoddyHolder said:
Machina said:
NoddyHolder said:
SamuelRSmith said:

Because there are no private sector alternatives to David Cameron's job. The wage for a public sector worker working for, say the Treasury, is high because they need to compete with the wages offered by the financial institutions. Those jobs require a similar skill set and education, so the Treasury needs to make it worthwhile for the people to choose working for them over working for, say, Goldman Sachs, or Barclays Investment.

The same goes for high level public sector workers across the board. The NHS is competing with Bupa for health care specialists, but also just for managerial jobs in general with the private sector.

simple solution, ban private healthcare. (education too)

You want to ban private health care because specialist and managerial staff in the NHS are paid too much?

yep, Healthcare is NOT about making money, its about providing a public service, same with Education, you dont need a private sector.

Yes, you do. If I can afford to pay for an alternative to the NHS which refuses its patients medication because it's too expensive, and if I can afford to pay for a better education, I have the right to both of those things.

If you ban everything in the private sector, you have Communism, and see how that's worked out over history.

im not saying ban everything, just healthcare and education.

you do not have the right to get better care or education based soley on your income, thats bullshit.



Kasz216 said:
NoddyHolder said:
Kasz216 said:
NoddyHolder said:
SamuelRSmith said:

Because there are no private sector alternatives to David Cameron's job. The wage for a public sector worker working for, say the Treasury, is high because they need to compete with the wages offered by the financial institutions. Those jobs require a similar skill set and education, so the Treasury needs to make it worthwhile for the people to choose working for them over working for, say, Goldman Sachs, or Barclays Investment.

The same goes for high level public sector workers across the board. The NHS is competing with Bupa for health care specialists, but also just for managerial jobs in general with the private sector.

simple solution, ban private healthcare. (education too)

So everyone is instead stuck with the standard shitty options... rigggggght.

Oh, and also... government now has no incentive to improve those shitty options since they now have no competition.

Brilliant idea.

they will improve them because people will want better education, and in a decent democracy, the government will listen and invest and impove both healthcare and education.

if you are saying that the USA/UK are not decent democracies, then I agree.

No... most people won't want a better education.  At least not if it's going to cost them money.  Have you never lived in a community that had to pass a school levy before?

The people who want better education tend to stop at people with kids when it comes to the votes.  Even then plenty of said group doesn't want to vote for it because of the horrible way most schools spend school levies.

With no Private schools there will be no frame of refrence for "better"... people will think it's fine.

Private institutions show the ineefficencies and flaws of public ones.

Afterall if private companies do a better job cheaper AND make a profit you know something is wrong with the public versions.


I believe your assumption that people won't want better education is possibly true, but the reasoning demonstrates what is wrong with those opinions.

The benefits of a bette educations system is not isolated to those who receive the education, the whole of society benefits. If a country has a better educated workforce, it's more likely to attract more business, international investment and increasing levels of employment.

This brings in more capital, the country gets richer, people have more money because they are employed in a strong economy and there are increased tax returns which allow for better public services.

Higher education also has knock on affects, including improved health, better social environment and reduced crime.

And even if there weren't private schools, you can still compare education to other countries, to other state schools and overall edcuation levels.

You can then see why having a really good quality, state education system benefits the whole of society. Cutting back on education will only cause long term problems, increased crime, a poorer, less skilled workforce, less investment and a weaker national economy. I don't think any of us want that.

Except maybe those who can afford to send their children to private schools, get their children into the top universities and can ensure their children a good job through nepotism. They are the ones who can afford private healthcare, tax haven status, and extra security to keep the 'local ruffians' out.



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KylieDog said:

The fact they are a coalition government after all they said before the election shows how full of shit they both are.

 

Next election in 2015?  Dream on, this'll fall apart before then.

It is showing no signs of falling apart as it stands. Also I can't imagine there being overwhelming support for any other party in the Uk at the present moment.



FootballFan said:
KylieDog said:

The fact they are a coalition government after all they said before the election shows how full of shit they both are.

 

Next election in 2015?  Dream on, this'll fall apart before then.

It is showing no signs of falling apart as it stands. Also I can't imagine there being overwhelming support for any other party in the Uk at the present moment.

I think the Lib Dems are likely to have their worst ever election in the next general election, and I think Labour will probably win by a large majority.

The coalition are about to bring a world of hurt to the UK, and the public won't like it.



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Favourite game: Killzone 3

Scruff7 said:
FootballFan said:
KylieDog said:

The fact they are a coalition government after all they said before the election shows how full of shit they both are.

 

Next election in 2015?  Dream on, this'll fall apart before then.

It is showing no signs of falling apart as it stands. Also I can't imagine there being overwhelming support for any other party in the Uk at the present moment.

I think the Lib Dems are likely to have their worst ever election in the next general election, and I think Labour will probably win by a large majority.

The coalition are about to bring a world of hurt to the UK, and the public won't like it.

Has to be done to combat massive fiscal failings of the last government. Many jobs will be lost but I think the coalition has got  a lot of support as the general public realise the hole that we need to find a way out of before it gets too late.

As the Liberal Democrats support is leaving it is going mostly to Labour and partially to the Conservatives....seems like we are back to the two party politics that it has and most likely will always be. At the present time I think Conservatives could win an election but as you rightly stated people (always) go against current governments and think the grass is always greener...



FootballFan said:
Scruff7 said:
FootballFan said:
KylieDog said:

The fact they are a coalition government after all they said before the election shows how full of shit they both are.

 

Next election in 2015?  Dream on, this'll fall apart before then.

It is showing no signs of falling apart as it stands. Also I can't imagine there being overwhelming support for any other party in the Uk at the present moment.

I think the Lib Dems are likely to have their worst ever election in the next general election, and I think Labour will probably win by a large majority.

The coalition are about to bring a world of hurt to the UK, and the public won't like it.

Has to be done to combat massive fiscal failings of the last government. Many jobs will be lost but I think the coalition has got  a lot of support as the general public realise the hole that we need to find a way out of before it gets too late.

As the Liberal Democrats support is leaving it is going mostly to Labour and partially to the Conservatives....seems like we are back to the two party politics that it has and most likely will always be. At the present time I think Conservatives could win an election but as you rightly stated people (always) go against current governments and think the grass is always greener...

complete and utter dross, it doesnt have to be done the way there are doing it, not even remotley like what they are.

your dreaming, once the cuts really bite, the backlash will be huge, beleive you me.

The Liberal Democrats will be tainted by the cuts and the fact they got shafted by the co-allition agreement, the only way they will stay in power is if the support for Labour and the Tories is equal enough to produce another hung parliament. still nothing has been done about the large amounts of ignorance and apathy in British Politics.



FootballFan said:
Scruff7 said:
FootballFan said:
KylieDog said:

The fact they are a coalition government after all they said before the election shows how full of shit they both are.

 

Next election in 2015?  Dream on, this'll fall apart before then.

It is showing no signs of falling apart as it stands. Also I can't imagine there being overwhelming support for any other party in the Uk at the present moment.

I think the Lib Dems are likely to have their worst ever election in the next general election, and I think Labour will probably win by a large majority.

The coalition are about to bring a world of hurt to the UK, and the public won't like it.

Has to be done to combat massive fiscal failings of the last government. Many jobs will be lost but I think the coalition has got  a lot of support as the general public realise the hole that we need to find a way out of before it gets too late.

As the Liberal Democrats support is leaving it is going mostly to Labour and partially to the Conservatives....seems like we are back to the two party politics that it has and most likely will always be. At the present time I think Conservatives could win an election but as you rightly stated people (always) go against current governments and think the grass is always greener...


it's also the risks that the extreme measures the coalition are taking. We've been warned by the IMF and the US on the risks of cutting too quickly (and the IMF have never been particularly leanient on counties with large deficits!).

The IMF recommend that countries with large deficits cut gradually over a 15 year period to reduce risks of economic collapse and knock on problems, but the coalition are demanding on cutting over 5 years. Even conservative estimates show enemployment rates staying pretty stable over the next 5 years because of the measures, while other estimimates show unemployment rates going up by 1.3 million, giving us the amongst the highest unemployment rates in europe.

That's a hell of a lot more people relying on the state and not contributing.

30% cut in public services, a 30% cut in policing, a 30% cut in voluntary and charity sector, 40% in councils. If we do end up in a double dip, there will be nothing to fall back on to pick up the peices, that's the worrying thing.



Atari 2600, Sega Mega Drive, Game Boy, Game Boy Advanced, N64, Playstation, Xbox, PSP Phat, PSP 3000, and PS3 60gb (upgraded to 320gb), NDS

Linux Ubuntu user

Favourite game: Killzone 3