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Forums - Microsoft - Square: MS unwilling to work on FFXIV 360 problems

Wagram said:
selnor said:
Wagram said:
selnor said:

What? 220,000 is shocking. IMO, I'm shocked SE are bothering to bring another FFMMO to console especially when on PS brand name it sold worse in a much longer Lifetime period.


Your shocked? Final Fantasy XI has made more money and revenue for Square than ANY Final Fantasy game.

Why would you be shocked?

Yeah the PC version. 

I said I was shocked they were bothering with another console version. After 6 years on PS2 it has managed 150,000 copies sold. And 4 and a hlaf years on 360 it managed 220,000. What are SE thinking wasting time and money on another console version?

Lets look at this: 

SE want M$ to change there policy for 200,000 players over a 4 year period?

In business terms SE would be laughed out of the door. 

Going by PS players, on PS3 it looks destined to sell barely 200,000 over 6 years.


200,000 people at a 12.95 subscription = 2.59M a MONTH

31.08M a YEAR

I would hardly call that bad.

The problem with that is:

  • You're assuming that everyone who picked up the game stuck with it.
  • You're assuming that everyone who bought it on console didn't already have it on PC.
  • You're assuming there's no overhead.
  • First off, I would be willing to bet that a lot of people who bought FFXI on the consoles thought it was just another Final Fantasy.  Even if they knew it was an MMO, FFXI is not an easy game.  If you're not dedicated you will fail.  Also, if you don't have millions of gil and the best equipment, nobody will give you the time of day after level 25 (and that's assuming they even get that far!).  I love FFXI, but it isn't a new user friendly game at all.  If someone picked up the game for the first time any time after 2006, I would be willing to bet they didn't stick with it for longer than a year.

    Of the people that I've met that use console, I'd say about 3/4 of the them have the game on the PC too.  I know that's all just speculation and my own experiences, but in the rare event I do find someone playing on the console, that's usually the case.

    Finally, even ignoring the above two things, 38 million a year may sound like a lot but MMO's burn through money like mad.  Even a small MMO like FFXI has A MASSIVE upkeep that is probably more than 38 million yearly.

    Don't get me wrong, I love FFXI and I assume FFXIV is going to be just as successful, but this is going to be marketed as a PC game.  Sony will market the game for themselves because they can, but as far as SE is concerned, this is a PC game first and foremost.  I'm not saying the PS3 version is a waste of time and it will do them some good, but the support for this game will be on the PC.



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    Let's be honest here. MMO gaming on consoles is not popular. Especially when you compare it to the PC versions. So many games get dropped from consoles because of this. If we use FFXI sales on just consoles it is what around 200k-300k?  That is bought. Does not include those who dropped out after the free month that was included. I doubt very much that of the console community it still has 100k playing it.

    It just seems like another cash in game to me. It sounds like SE are trying hard to pimp it out to MS and they simply not interested. Can't blame them. I am a huge FF fan and i know if i bought this game (which i doubt i will) then i would get it for PC.



    ssj12 said:
    dahuman said:
    ssj12 said:
    dahuman said:
    ssj12 said:
    Wagram said:
    ssj12 said:

    Dude seriously, my mom's laptop will run FFXIV and it was a $450 laptop. We all know laptop parts are shit compared to desktop parts and for $450 I could build a pretty decent desktop.


    Yeah you can run it. But how well can you run it? On a 450 laptop your probably going to get a 1000 or less benchmark score which is bare bones with lag.


    not true, I just installed my GTX480 and now have 6GBs of ram. Do you want to know how much of an improvement on the benchmark I gained? 40 points. My system scores a 2248 now. The benchmark is trash. Plain and simple. It tests nothing but CPU preformance with threading and does ia piss poor job at it since my CPU gets a P18990 running 3dMark Vantage which is a pretty good score.

    As for the specs of my mom's laptop. 3GBs of ram, HD3xxx mobile (its mid-grade, just forget exact model), and an Athlon II CPU running at 2.1GHz. It can run FFXI easily and actually run Crysis on low (at like 25fps but still it runs it). I havent tested the system with 3dmark or anything else but if I was to guess what it would score CPU wise I'd place it maybe around P14000 which is 1000 points above my Athlon X2 4600 .

    my friend, my CPU never went above 30% during those tests..... that thing is pretty video card heavy.....Wagram has almost the same setup that I do besides the video card and I kicked his ass by 700 points because I have a 5870 and he has a 5850, I think it's just that your CPU is too old at this point, I'll try running that benchmark on my 4400 MPC with a 3870 and update on the score when I get home so we can compare results.

    My CPU is only a year and a hlaf old. Athlon X2 7750BE oced to 3.03GHz. My Athlon X2 isnt the old K8 processors. Its based of AMD's K10 series.

    lets hope I don't get close or higher than you then, cause then there is something wrong....


    Ya, its a CPU stresser. I just ran CPUTemp with EVGA Precision and watched usage. My CPU usage maxed to 100% while GPU stayed around 25% max. And my score this time was 2015. Something is massively screwed up with this benchmark. Its not using my system correctly at all. Especially since I just OCed my GTX480, which is stronger than your GPU at stock, by 30MHz on both processor and memory.

    it's pretty much the opposite with my i7 860, CPU doesn't go over 30% and GPU blows it up, I ran it on my 4400 with a 3850 AGP and got about 1400 btw so I think there really is something wrong with the benchmark when working with your setup. That or you are CPU capped and should get a quad to hex core.



    Killiana1a said:

    I am going to say what is on every Western gamer's mind, but they are afraid to say it because they don't want to upset their Japanophile friends:

    No MMORPG from Japan will ever reach comparable numbers to the World of Warcraft. Why? Final Fantasy is too Japan-centric for those who have never heard of Final Fantasy, while anyone who has read a Lord of the Rings book   or a Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance fantasy novel inspired by J.R.R. Tolkien can easily relate to Warcraft.

    Final Fantasy 11 has been out since 2002 and according to Wikipedia (take it how you want to take it), "In April 2009, Square Enix announced that the total number of active characters exceeded 2 million for the first time in game history."

    7 years to reach 2 million monthly subscribers, while when I played the World of Warcraft exclusively from January 2007 until July 2009, the lowest subscriber number I ran across was 6 million according to the WoW Census on www.warcraftrealms.com.

    Redressing Final Fantasy 11 as Final Fantasy 14 is cute, but the past numbers speak for themselves and portend what is more than likely to come in the future.

    I would call Final Fantasy 11 a failure in comparison to the World of Warcraft, but that is as trite as saying "its hot" during a sunny day.


    You do realize that WoW crushes western MMORPGs too right? Fucking destroys them, at least FF11 is still making money which is not something I can say about a lot of other MMOs that blew up or are dying atm, from the west of course.



    selnor said:
    Wagram said:
    selnor said:

    Considering Both the 360 and PS2 versions of Final Fantasy 11 performed rediculously badly. Like amazingly badly in sales. It's no surprise that M$ doesnt care about an MMO like FF14 for the 360. I say stick your guns M$. Live is better for it.

    PS2 FF11 = 150,000 Lifetime

    360 FF11 = 220,000 Lifetime. And this on the most active played console online service.

     

    Like I said this is a non issue as far as M$ are concerned. A keyboard is a must for MMORPG's.

    You can use a keyboard with the PS2/PS3. The cheap USB ones work as well as the new Sony Keypad, not exactly new but it is slightly new.

    I should rephrase, Keyboard mouse combo. Controller keyboard combo is hardly as fast. I think WOW would be impossible on controller. 

    FF11 only worked because it was so slow. Played it for a bit, but was hugely dull.

    Anyone my point was the sales for console of FF MMO was so poor it's not even worth M$ thinking about this let alone discussing it. over 90% of the long serving FF14 players will be on PC. And that will be less than  2 million anyway. 

    M$ best interest would be to support a 360 only MMO which is built from the ground up only for 360. So it plays entirely to the strengths of the controller, headset and possibly Kinect abilities? 

    If M$ thoght an MMO would sell anywhere near 1 mill on console then it would be worth it. But the best any has done is 220,000. 

    Obviously M$ look smart when you see the sales figures.

    Making a console centric MMO is suicide either way, on one hand, devs might not make enough money, on the other, MMO is part of the PC destruction history where it would most likely happen to consoles. In the end, MMO is a dangerous area for any platform.



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    dahuman said:
    Killiana1a said:

    I am going to say what is on every Western gamer's mind, but they are afraid to say it because they don't want to upset their Japanophile friends:

    No MMORPG from Japan will ever reach comparable numbers to the World of Warcraft. Why? Final Fantasy is too Japan-centric for those who have never heard of Final Fantasy, while anyone who has read a Lord of the Rings book   or a Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance fantasy novel inspired by J.R.R. Tolkien can easily relate to Warcraft.

    Final Fantasy 11 has been out since 2002 and according to Wikipedia (take it how you want to take it), "In April 2009, Square Enix announced that the total number of active characters exceeded 2 million for the first time in game history."

    7 years to reach 2 million monthly subscribers, while when I played the World of Warcraft exclusively from January 2007 until July 2009, the lowest subscriber number I ran across was 6 million according to the WoW Census on www.warcraftrealms.com.

    Redressing Final Fantasy 11 as Final Fantasy 14 is cute, but the past numbers speak for themselves and portend what is more than likely to come in the future.

    I would call Final Fantasy 11 a failure in comparison to the World of Warcraft, but that is as trite as saying "its hot" during a sunny day.


    You do realize that WoW crushes western MMORPGs too right? Fucking destroys them, at least FF11 is still making money which is not something I can say about a lot of other MMOs that blew up or are dying atm, from the west of course.


    Yeah, I think he forgot that FFXI is one of the few successful MMO's out there.  About five years ago there were countless MMO's coming out trying to cash in on WoW's success.  The few that actually even released lasted almost no time at all.

    Saying FFXI wasn't a success since WoW sales so greatly outnumbered it is as stupid as saying Bioshock wasn't a success because Modern Warfare 2 sales so greatly outnumbered it.  Just because something isn't the best or highest selling doesn't mean it's automatically a failure.

     



    SE charge about 14 USD a month .. on the 360 sales alone that brings about 2 million USD income a month which isn't bad for an 8 year old MMOrpg.. but i guess MS don't care about MMOs cause they don't require gold accounts so won't make any profit on it.



    dahuman said:
    ssj12 said:
    dahuman said:
    ssj12 said:
    dahuman said:
    ssj12 said:
    Wagram said:
    ssj12 said:

    Dude seriously, my mom's laptop will run FFXIV and it was a $450 laptop. We all know laptop parts are shit compared to desktop parts and for $450 I could build a pretty decent desktop.


    Yeah you can run it. But how well can you run it? On a 450 laptop your probably going to get a 1000 or less benchmark score which is bare bones with lag.


    not true, I just installed my GTX480 and now have 6GBs of ram. Do you want to know how much of an improvement on the benchmark I gained? 40 points. My system scores a 2248 now. The benchmark is trash. Plain and simple. It tests nothing but CPU preformance with threading and does ia piss poor job at it since my CPU gets a P18990 running 3dMark Vantage which is a pretty good score.

    As for the specs of my mom's laptop. 3GBs of ram, HD3xxx mobile (its mid-grade, just forget exact model), and an Athlon II CPU running at 2.1GHz. It can run FFXI easily and actually run Crysis on low (at like 25fps but still it runs it). I havent tested the system with 3dmark or anything else but if I was to guess what it would score CPU wise I'd place it maybe around P14000 which is 1000 points above my Athlon X2 4600 .

    my friend, my CPU never went above 30% during those tests..... that thing is pretty video card heavy.....Wagram has almost the same setup that I do besides the video card and I kicked his ass by 700 points because I have a 5870 and he has a 5850, I think it's just that your CPU is too old at this point, I'll try running that benchmark on my 4400 MPC with a 3870 and update on the score when I get home so we can compare results.

    My CPU is only a year and a hlaf old. Athlon X2 7750BE oced to 3.03GHz. My Athlon X2 isnt the old K8 processors. Its based of AMD's K10 series.

    lets hope I don't get close or higher than you then, cause then there is something wrong....


    Ya, its a CPU stresser. I just ran CPUTemp with EVGA Precision and watched usage. My CPU usage maxed to 100% while GPU stayed around 25% max. And my score this time was 2015. Something is massively screwed up with this benchmark. Its not using my system correctly at all. Especially since I just OCed my GTX480, which is stronger than your GPU at stock, by 30MHz on both processor and memory.

    it's pretty much the opposite with my i7 860, CPU doesn't go over 30% and GPU blows it up, I ran it on my 4400 with a 3850 AGP and got about 1400 btw so I think there really is something wrong with the benchmark when working with your setup. That or you are CPU capped and should get a quad to hex core.

    Dude you have a Core i7. Of course you wont max out the CPU. The benchmark is probably a port of the PS3 version of the Crystal engine which means it supports the Cell processor and RSX.

    My CPU normally outperforms most Core 2 Duo made as well as the Phenom X3 is most benchmarts. it even beats the Core 2 Quad 6600 in some benchmarks. IF I can run Crysis on Very High, I can run FFXIV.



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    Why are the sales of an MMO brought up?

    Success is counted in number of suscribers.... Every year, each suscriber has paid about the price of 2 fully priced games in fees.... so 200K suscribers is probably the equivalent of a 1.5M selling regular game (with price decrease), revenue wise.



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    Hephaestos said:

    Why are the sales of an MMO brought up?

    Success is counted in number of suscribers.... Every year, each suscriber has paid about the price of 2 fully priced games in fees.... so 200K suscribers is probably the equivalent of a 1.5M selling regular game (with price decrease), revenue wise.


    Actually, most people that actually play FFXI and get a job above at least 60 has more than one character.  I believe I had my main, my alt, and four mules so I was paying an extra $6 a month.