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Forums - Gaming - Deus Ex 3 Human Revolution - E3 Trailer (incredible)

naznatips said:
mirgro said:
naznatips said:
mirgro said:

Ok so seeing how developers will keep on trying to put in that noob feature, the regenerating health, ad try and pass it off as a way for them to fine tune encounters. Why don't they make enemies also have the regenerating thing? So when you hide to regen, they do so as well? That way they can still use the "it allows us to control encounters" argument without noobing up and dumbing down the game.


SMG2 is much harder than the original Deus Ex, despite the optional Galactic Guide when you're getting owned.

On Topic:

I don't care about the inclusion of regenerating health, as long as the stealth is good. The best way to play Deus Ex was stealth. They should also use the new tech to let you take advantage of verticallity more than Deus Ex did.

Oh and on Invisible War, it was not a bad game at all, just disappointing compared to Deus Ex. It was still better than 90% of the shooters last generation.


I honestly can't say which wass harder. Played DE1 last year on hard, and I just finished SMG2, even the secret world. I had no problem getting through both equally easily. Though I have been through DE nearly a dozen times now so that maybe played a role in it, and I have been playing Mario since 3.

Also, Invisible War was indeed a bad game. Games are supposed to get better with time, not worse, hence it was a bad game. Also saying that it was better than 90% of shooters last gen is like saying that someone won in the special olympics. It's relatively a great achievement, realisticaclly it's still bad compared to the actual olympics.


I disagree that being a downgrade makes a game bad. Bioshock is a downgrade from System Shock 2 in many ways, but is generally considered a great game. Invisible War was enjoyable, which is what makes a game good. It wasn't great, and it certainly didn't live up to the original, but it wasn't bad


Actually yes, BioShock was a pretty meh game exactly because SS2 was better on top of doing it almost a decade earlier. We should not be encouraging games that are worse than games that have been out for years. Otherwise you get something like BioShock 2 which was even worse than the first and just a very very mediocre game. If it's not better in some area than a game that already exists, then it's really not worth being on the market since it offers absolutely nothing new.



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mirgro said:
naznatips said:
mirgro said:
naznatips said:
mirgro said:

Ok so seeing how developers will keep on trying to put in that noob feature, the regenerating health, ad try and pass it off as a way for them to fine tune encounters. Why don't they make enemies also have the regenerating thing? So when you hide to regen, they do so as well? That way they can still use the "it allows us to control encounters" argument without noobing up and dumbing down the game.


SMG2 is much harder than the original Deus Ex, despite the optional Galactic Guide when you're getting owned.

On Topic:

I don't care about the inclusion of regenerating health, as long as the stealth is good. The best way to play Deus Ex was stealth. They should also use the new tech to let you take advantage of verticallity more than Deus Ex did.

Oh and on Invisible War, it was not a bad game at all, just disappointing compared to Deus Ex. It was still better than 90% of the shooters last generation.


I honestly can't say which wass harder. Played DE1 last year on hard, and I just finished SMG2, even the secret world. I had no problem getting through both equally easily. Though I have been through DE nearly a dozen times now so that maybe played a role in it, and I have been playing Mario since 3.

Also, Invisible War was indeed a bad game. Games are supposed to get better with time, not worse, hence it was a bad game. Also saying that it was better than 90% of shooters last gen is like saying that someone won in the special olympics. It's relatively a great achievement, realisticaclly it's still bad compared to the actual olympics.


I disagree that being a downgrade makes a game bad. Bioshock is a downgrade from System Shock 2 in many ways, but is generally considered a great game. Invisible War was enjoyable, which is what makes a game good. It wasn't great, and it certainly didn't live up to the original, but it wasn't bad


Actually yes, BioShock was a pretty meh game exactly because SS2 was better on top of doing it almost a decade earlier. We should not be encouraging games that are worse than games that have been out for years. Otherwise you get something like BioShock 2 which was even worse than the first and just a very very mediocre game. If it's not better in some area than a game that already exists, then it's really not worth being on the market since it offers absolutely nothing new.


Saying a game is only good if it's better than all similar games before it is ridiuclous. That would mean there are only a few actually good games in existence by your definition and everything else sucks. A good game is enjoyable to play. A bad game is not.



naznatips said:


Saying a game is only good if it's better than all similar games before it is ridiuclous. That would mean there are only a few actually good games in existence by your definition and everything else sucks. A good game is enjoyable to play. A bad game is not.


Actually, that was the case up until the early/mid 2000s. Games to get praise had to be better than their predecessors, otherwise they were labeled as clones, and then their value was automatically lowered. I don't know what happened 2004/05/06 on, but things apparently changed. All I know is that there is indeed less than 25 games on all platforms and PC since then that have actually not been boring and just bad games. If you count indie games, then 40.

I also do enjoy playing even the suckier games, however I don't let that determine if it's a good game or not. A good game will top previous experiences, a bad game will not. You don't see anyone who enjoys movies the way you enjoy games saying that Avatar was a good movie solely becuse it was enjoyable to watch, do you? Everyone like that generally agrees that it was an enjoyable, but trashy, movie.



mirgro said:
naznatips said:


Saying a game is only good if it's better than all similar games before it is ridiuclous. That would mean there are only a few actually good games in existence by your definition and everything else sucks. A good game is enjoyable to play. A bad game is not.


Actually, that was the case up until the early/mid 2000s. Games to get praise had to be better than their predecessors, otherwise they were labeled as clones, and then their value was automatically lowered. I don't know what happened 2004/05/06 on, but things apparently changed. All I know is that there is indeed less than 25 games on all platforms and PC since then that have actually not been boring and just bad games. If you count indie games, then 40.

I also do enjoy playing even the suckier games, however I don't let that determine if it's a good game or not. A good game will top previous experiences, a bad game will not. You don't see anyone who enjoys movies the way you enjoy games saying that Avatar was a good movie solely becuse it was enjoyable to watch, do you? Everyone like that generally agrees that it was an enjoyable, but trashy, movie.

Things changed because a lot of older PC game franchises started appearing on consoles and were designed around the console audience and hence were "streamlined", sometimes well, othertimes poorly. Bioshock as the spiritual successor to System Shock 2 is a good example of a game having many things removed, but being praised for it. It wasn't a bad game, but as System Shock 2 (and to a lesser extent Deus Ex) was a predominantly PC game, the console crowd is unlikely to have the standards PC players who played these games in years gone by have.

Of course, their are cases where I think consolification has actually worked for a game, like in Mass Effect 1 & 2.

Also, I don't think your definition of good and bad games is necessarily the same as everyone elses'. If we take your Avatar example, then I think most (including a number of critics) would say it is a good film for what it was trying to acheive in terms of an entertaining and visually innovative piece of film. Classing all games as either good or bad based solely on what it does compared to previous games seems a bit silly.



Scoobes said:
mirgro said:
naznatips said:


Saying a game is only good if it's better than all similar games before it is ridiuclous. That would mean there are only a few actually good games in existence by your definition and everything else sucks. A good game is enjoyable to play. A bad game is not.


Actually, that was the case up until the early/mid 2000s. Games to get praise had to be better than their predecessors, otherwise they were labeled as clones, and then their value was automatically lowered. I don't know what happened 2004/05/06 on, but things apparently changed. All I know is that there is indeed less than 25 games on all platforms and PC since then that have actually not been boring and just bad games. If you count indie games, then 40.

I also do enjoy playing even the suckier games, however I don't let that determine if it's a good game or not. A good game will top previous experiences, a bad game will not. You don't see anyone who enjoys movies the way you enjoy games saying that Avatar was a good movie solely becuse it was enjoyable to watch, do you? Everyone like that generally agrees that it was an enjoyable, but trashy, movie.

Things changed because a lot of older PC game franchises started appearing on consoles and were designed around the console audience and hence were "streamlined", sometimes well, othertimes poorly. Bioshock as the spiritual successor to System Shock 2 is a good example of a game having many things removed, but being praised for it. It wasn't a bad game, but as System Shock 2 (and to a lesser extent Deus Ex) was a predominantly PC game, the console crowd is unlikely to have the standards PC players who played these games in years gone by have.

Of course, their are cases where I think consolification has actually worked for a game, like in Mass Effect 1 & 2.

Also, I don't think your definition of good and bad games is necessarily the same as everyone elses'. If we take your Avatar example, then I think most (including a number of critics) would say it is a good film for what it was trying to acheive in terms of an entertaining and visually innovative piece of film. Classing all games as either good or bad based solely on what it does compared to previous games seems a bit silly.

So we can blame the console gamers for the apparent restart in several genres of games? I guess I can see that.

As for Avatar though, there are objective qualities based on which movies are qualified such as story, acting, themes presented, etc. Same is true for video games. Atmosphere, graphics, story, different features of gameplay. In the case of Avatar, all it had was the immersion and it got points for that. However in terms of acting, story, themes presented, etc, it failed pretty miserably, Now I am not saying it wasn't entertaining, in fact few people have, but they also aren't saying it's anything better than your average mediocre action movie.

In the movies, for something to be considered good, it would be measured against other movies such as Schindler's List, Godfather, etc. not against Avatar or The Dark Knight. There is no reason to compare games to their equivalnets, but to the best gaming has ever offered.



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That was one awesome trailer, really makes me want to play the original. Well, good thing it's cheap!