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Forums - Gaming - Natal vs. Move:The game of Smoke and Mirrors

joeorc on 24 May 2010
ramses01 said:
joeorc said:
Smidlee said:
joeorc said:
 

and the OP's thread was about that..what squil brought in was an opinion on the development of both technology's of how each party which he was trying to say that Microsoft's development software was more complicated than sony's for development which while is his opinion , is just that an opinion its ok to have an opinion. that still does not take away from the fact that we know.

the processes are done on the xbox360 not Natal, so your :

"NATAL is a neuro-network based simulution and prediction algorithm for human movement layered on top of a 3D spatial detection mechanism."

is still performed on the xbox360's precessor not on Natal itself, thus it's not an issue for Natal but on the same token that's nothing anything that Sony is not doing with the PS3 and it's development for processing algorithm's on the Cell processor. both have to program those chip's

thay may use many seperate API's but they still have to go about programming those to do what they need them to do, saying one software company produces more complicated software over the other is just his opinion.

that still does not make it a fact, which was what he was putting out in this thread.

 

 
I would think Natal software has to be more complicated than Move as Move has something very reliable to track. Yet at the same time Natal software can't be too complicated or it will take too much time to process.

it's not so much about the camera's as about the processing!

those chip's have to be programmed. just because you are only tracking one object does not mean other thing's that are going into the same software would not be complicated.

that's trying to generalize every thing that goes into s a software program, and that i think is very wrong.

taking into account one thing but not the other's is glossing over what the software does on a whole. like i said I am not taking anything away from the point of Natal being more advanced than the eyetoy because it is. what I am disagreeing with is the idea that the software is more complicated over the other because we have no idea what each program's are for each of the system's will employ. one of each may be more complicated than the other on any givin software we do not know.

You are missing the entire point.  NATAL is the software.  Sony is incapable of creating NATAL because they don't have the R&D expertise on the software side.  If you listen to some of the MS R&D folks talk about NATAL, you would get a better idea.

o'l not you too..?

look while i respect you and all , but that's just an your Opinion..somehow i get this feeling were no longer talking about game's at this point and were just talking About ..because

you an squil

are trying to make it a

in [general] Microsoft software vs. in [general] Sony software

and that once again is quite subject to each person's opinion.

 



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ps:

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forevercloud3000 on 24 May 2010
TRios_Zen said:
Hmmm some thoughts here:

1) What big names have actually advertised Natal? I haven't seen any commercials for Natal. I have seen videos of various people playing Natal, and I've seen Natal on Jimmy Fallon, but I've seen no celebrity "endorsement" or paid advertisements.

2) Microsoft has made Natal available to people to play that ricochet game at numerous venues; the buzz is generated from that, and honestly, I think even the most avid of 360 fans is tired of hearing about ricochet and looking for something new.

3) I find it interesting for someone to say that they were interested in Move, but were never interested in the Wii. I'm not saying that the Move isn't more accurate tech, but I wonder how many people REALLY thought, "man I'd love a Wii, its just not accurate enough!" This is not aimed at the op, just a general comment.

4) Another generalization - as very few actual games have been shown for either peripheral, I'd guess that any persons preference at this time, would be somewhat tainted by their personal preference for either Sony or MS.

To be honest, I figure that given the propensity for cognitive dissonance often displayed on forums such as these, I doubt E3 will really convince people one way or the other, and most will fall back on their pre-E3 dispositions.

1. Well I was refering to Last E3 with MS's barrage of big names coming across stage. Also MS had some famous sports starts playing with the Natal in some demo video(was during the time when that guy said that black ppl can't play with Natal).

2. OK

3. I still am not all that interested. Through many references that clued to it already, I did indeed play quite a few games on the Wii. The reasons that keep me disinterested with Motion Control is more so with the Wii library and application and less so with the technology. I do know if used properly it can be fun. I had a ball with Harry Potter on the Wii surprisingly enough and if the entire game could keep up with the game's control scheme it would have been phenomenal. Also Move is being pushed along titles I prefer like LBP, Socom 4 and Ape Escape.

4. Point taken, thats sort of why I started the thread. I wanted to flesh out my view of what is going on and average it out with what others see. I do feel that Move proves itself more than Natal currently has. We have seen quite a few applications of Move in an interesting light while all I ever see of Natal is Ricochet, Videos of Milo, and it supposedly being used in Fable III.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

20happyballs on 24 May 2010

The PS Move is, like you send, proven. Meaning that it is not really something that is new. Natal, on the other hand, is almost completely new. While we don't really know what kind of games could be made with it, many of us see a whole new avenue of gaming only possible with Natal.





forevercloud3000 on 24 May 2010
zero129 said:
Why does it have to be Natel Vs move, imo both are going to be good, if you have a 360 you get natal if you have a PS3 you get move, and if you have both then you get both.

But imo the real advantage Natal has over move is for multi player games, like you want to enjoy that fighting game on PS3 you need to buy 2 moves, now you want to enjoy it on 4 player you need to buy 4 moves how much is that going to set you back?, with natel up to 4 people or more can all play using the one device, but other then that its the only advantage i can see..

Yea I was thinking the same thing. How much would it suck to have to buy so many copies of the Move? It has a nunchuck like periperal and certain games require you use 2 Move wands, seriously Sony??? That doesn't make economical sense and will end up biting them in the ass. They should have just stuck a glowing ball on the nunchuck part too.

 



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

forevercloud3000 on 24 May 2010
20happyballs said:
The PS Move is, like you send, proven. Meaning that it is not really something that is new. Natal, on the other hand, is almost completely new. While we don't really know what kind of games could be made with it, many of us see a whole new avenue of gaming only possible with Natal.

Name one, please. I want to hear these possiblilites. I'm not trying to be snarky but I simply fail to see what you apparently do. I want to hear a gaming idea that can broadly be seen as fun using simple hands free motion control. Now I can think of quite a few nice addable touches it could bring to gaming(putting your face on character, etc) but it ends there.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

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scottie on 24 May 2010

Natal has more hype because it has been handled better (from a PR perspective) and because it is something new (don't get into a semantic argument with me about new, I'm not interested)

Move has more games announced for it because it had an earlier release date - lets wait till E3 to compare games lineups, shall we?

quoting Kevin Butler = insta troll. That pew pew line, as well as being devoid of anything approaching what I would refer to as humour, is exactly what forum trolls were saying about the Wiimote after it was announced



ils411 on 24 May 2010
forevercloud3000 said:
20happyballs said:

Name one, please.


dude, you have no imagination... "Rapelay: Natal" .... LOL



ils411 on 24 May 2010

wait, how about "Space Sirens: Natal"? LOLOLOLOL



ils411 on 24 May 2010

but seriouslly, i just thought about it and a "rock, paper, scissors" online game would be AWSOME! i'd so buy that to play rock paper scissors with other people around the world



ramses01 on 25 May 2010
joeorc said:
ramses01 said:
joeorc said:
Smidlee said:
joeorc said:
 

and the OP's thread was about that..what squil brought in was an opinion on the development of both technology's of how each party which he was trying to say that Microsoft's development software was more complicated than sony's for development which while is his opinion , is just that an opinion its ok to have an opinion. that still does not take away from the fact that we know.

the processes are done on the xbox360 not Natal, so your :

"NATAL is a neuro-network based simulution and prediction algorithm for human movement layered on top of a 3D spatial detection mechanism."

is still performed on the xbox360's precessor not on Natal itself, thus it's not an issue for Natal but on the same token that's nothing anything that Sony is not doing with the PS3 and it's development for processing algorithm's on the Cell processor. both have to program those chip's

thay may use many seperate API's but they still have to go about programming those to do what they need them to do, saying one software company produces more complicated software over the other is just his opinion.

that still does not make it a fact, which was what he was putting out in this thread.

 

 
I would think Natal software has to be more complicated than Move as Move has something very reliable to track. Yet at the same time Natal software can't be too complicated or it will take too much time to process.

it's not so much about the camera's as about the processing!

those chip's have to be programmed. just because you are only tracking one object does not mean other thing's that are going into the same software would not be complicated.

that's trying to generalize every thing that goes into s a software program, and that i think is very wrong.

taking into account one thing but not the other's is glossing over what the software does on a whole. like i said I am not taking anything away from the point of Natal being more advanced than the eyetoy because it is. what I am disagreeing with is the idea that the software is more complicated over the other because we have no idea what each program's are for each of the system's will employ. one of each may be more complicated than the other on any givin software we do not know.

You are missing the entire point.  NATAL is the software.  Sony is incapable of creating NATAL because they don't have the R&D expertise on the software side.  If you listen to some of the MS R&D folks talk about NATAL, you would get a better idea.

o'l not you too..?

look while i respect you and all , but that's just an your Opinion..somehow i get this feeling were no longer talking about game's at this point and were just talking About ..because

you an squil

are trying to make it a

in [general] Microsoft software vs. in [general] Sony software

and that once again is quite subject to each person's opinion.

 

Sigh, did you read what you wrote, because you aren't making sense.  We were NEVER talking about games.  Only about the software behind NATAL.  No games - software.  how difficult is it to parse a sentence.  MS is the only company in the world that could make NATAL because they are the only one that has spent 15-20 years and who knows how much money on the R&D behind natural user interfaces.