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Forums - General - Where does evil come from?

mrstickball on 22 May 2010

Evil springs from those that attempt to pursue negative, harming actions to oneself, and more potently, to harm others.

I would say to those that argue there is no 'good' or 'evil' - what do you say about Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich? Was that a group of neutral people that did something that was okay? What about Kim Jong Il of North Korea? Or Stalin of the USSR?

As a Christian, I do believe there is good and evil - a bar set for all of us to achieve. Doing good doesn't come naturally, because it involves self-sacrifice.



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Profcrab on 22 May 2010

You know, you live long enough and you just realize that there are bad people in the world. What makes them bad? Maybe they were brought up to think, or were conditioned by their surroundings to think, that other people are expendable in seeking their goals. Some people come to believe that they deserve things more than others, and they are within their natural rights to take it. Some people are just crazy and know something is wrong but are compelled to do it anyway. Yes, there is evil out there. Some want to assign it to the devil, but I think if you dig enough, you'll find reasons why people do the stuff they do. Do those people think of themselves as evil, that doubtful, but your actions are what define you, not your personal beliefs.

I give this thread a 9.5



Thank god for the disable signatures option.

Slimebeast on 22 May 2010

Watch "three guys and a hammer" if you don't believe in evil.



d21lewis on 22 May 2010
mrstickball said:
Evil springs from those that attempt to pursue negative, harming actions to oneself, and more potently, to harm others.

I would say to those that argue there is no 'good' or 'evil' - what do you say about Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich? Was that a group of neutral people that did something that was okay? What about Kim Jong Il of North Korea? Or Stalin of the USSR?

As a Christian, I do believe there is good and evil - a bar set for all of us to achieve. Doing good doesn't come naturally, because it involves self-sacrifice.

From my point of view, I'd say that those motherfuckers are evil.  From their point of view, it probably seemed like they were doing some great justice to the world.  Since Hitler lost, his point of view loses out.  Had the Third Reich won out, what would the history books call him?  History is written by the winners.  Do you think Stalin, Kim Jong Il, Hitler, or those kids who bashed that guy's head in with a hammer consider themselves a bad guy?  Did Anakin Skywalker think killing a bunch of children was evil?  It's all based on a point of view.  Not MY point of view, but a point of view......what in the hell am I doing?  I haven't mentioned boobs all day!!

Boobs.



mrstickball on 22 May 2010
d21lewis said:
mrstickball said:
Evil springs from those that attempt to pursue negative, harming actions to oneself, and more potently, to harm others.

I would say to those that argue there is no 'good' or 'evil' - what do you say about Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich? Was that a group of neutral people that did something that was okay? What about Kim Jong Il of North Korea? Or Stalin of the USSR?

As a Christian, I do believe there is good and evil - a bar set for all of us to achieve. Doing good doesn't come naturally, because it involves self-sacrifice.

From my point of view, I'd say that those motherfuckers are evil.  From their point of view, it probably seemed like they were doing some great justice to the world.  Since Hitler lost, his point of view loses out.  Had the Third Reich won out, what would the history books call him?  History is written by the winners.  Do you think Stalin, Kim Jong Il, Hitler, or those kids who bashed that guy's head in with a hammer consider themselves a bad guy?  Did Anakin Skywalker think killing a bunch of children was evil?  It's all based on a point of view.  Not MY point of view, but a point of view......what in the hell am I doing?  I haven't mentioned boobs all day!!

Boobs.

But just because someone believes they are doing 'good' does not mean that they are actually doing 'good', does it?

A rapist may think he's doing his penis good. Does that make it okay, though? Moral relativism is a slippery, damning, slope. Just because you may consider yourself something, doesn't mean you are. I can think I'm the president of the USA, but that doesn't mean I live in the White House, does it?



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Slimebeast on 22 May 2010
highwaystar101 said:

My real answer, events happen naturally , we are the ones that label them good and evil.

We also label these events in a spectrum. There is no such thing as good and evil per se, but good on one side of the spectrum and evil on the other, and everything exists as points in between.

The atheist view. Because everything that happens is predetermined (minus some randomness on the quantum level or whatever) there is no free will. And therefore no one is accountable for his actions. Thus there is no such thing as right or wrong, no good or evil.



O-D-C on 22 May 2010

evil comes from actions that contradict the common perception of good



highwaystar101 on 22 May 2010
Slimebeast said:
highwaystar101 said:

My real answer, events happen naturally , we are the ones that label them good and evil.

We also label these events in a spectrum. There is no such thing as good and evil per se, but good on one side of the spectrum and evil on the other, and everything exists as points in between.

The atheist view. Because everything that happens is predetermined (minus some randomness on the quantum level or whatever) there is no free will. And therefore no one is accountable for his actions. Thus there is no such thing as right or wrong, no good or evil.

How exactly did you extract that from my post? I mentioned nothing of the sort. Of course I acknowledge right or wrong and good or evil.

Man kills another man: evil.

Man donates a kidney to another man: good.

It's not hard. By your assertion us atheists are without morals, seeing murder as "just another aspect of nature". We may believe that nature is the be all and end all, but that doesn't mean we can't decide when to recognise something as evil and something as good.



d21lewis on 22 May 2010
mrstickball said:
d21lewis said:
mrstickball said:
Evil springs from those that attempt to pursue negative, harming actions to oneself, and more potently, to harm others.

I would say to those that argue there is no 'good' or 'evil' - what do you say about Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich? Was that a group of neutral people that did something that was okay? What about Kim Jong Il of North Korea? Or Stalin of the USSR?

As a Christian, I do believe there is good and evil - a bar set for all of us to achieve. Doing good doesn't come naturally, because it involves self-sacrifice.

From my point of view, I'd say that those motherfuckers are evil.  From their point of view, it probably seemed like they were doing some great justice to the world.  Since Hitler lost, his point of view loses out.  Had the Third Reich won out, what would the history books call him?  History is written by the winners.  Do you think Stalin, Kim Jong Il, Hitler, or those kids who bashed that guy's head in with a hammer consider themselves a bad guy?  Did Anakin Skywalker think killing a bunch of children was evil?  It's all based on a point of view.  Not MY point of view, but a point of view......what in the hell am I doing?  I haven't mentioned boobs all day!!

Boobs.

But just because someone believes they are doing 'good' does not mean that they are actually doing 'good', does it?

A rapist may think he's doing his penis good. Does that make it okay, though? Moral relativism is a slippery, damning, slope. Just because you may consider yourself something, doesn't mean you are. I can think I'm the president of the USA, but that doesn't mean I live in the White House, does it?

Being the president is a fact.  It can be proven or disproven.  I think shrimp tastes like ass.  That's an opinion.  You may think it tastes good.  It's all based on point of view.

Think of the American revolution.  Had it failed, we would still be a part of England and all of the revolutionaries would have been considered evil.  Because of the outcome, they're heroes.

And for that rapist, who knows.  Like I said, marry a 14 year old now and your ass is going to prison for statutory rape.  Mary a 14 year old a couple hundred years ago and you'd get a high five.  Go to Iraq or China.  Their idea of who the good guy is or what is acceptable is different from mine.  What makes my country, my religion, or my favorite color the right one?  I consider myself good, but I can't impose my beliefs on them without war. 

Popular opinion =/= right.



d21lewis on 22 May 2010
highwaystar101 said:
Slimebeast said:
highwaystar101 said:

My real answer, events happen naturally , we are the ones that label them good and evil.

We also label these events in a spectrum. There is no such thing as good and evil per se, but good on one side of the spectrum and evil on the other, and everything exists as points in between.

The atheist view. Because everything that happens is predetermined (minus some randomness on the quantum level or whatever) there is no free will. And therefore no one is accountable for his actions. Thus there is no such thing as right or wrong, no good or evil.

How exactly did you extract that from my post? I mentioned nothing of the sort. Of course I acknowledge right or wrong and good or evil.

Man kills another man: evil.

Man donates a kidney to another man: good.

It's not hard. By your assertion us atheists are without morals, seeing murder as "just another aspect of nature". We may believe that nature is the be all and end all, but that doesn't mean we can't decide when to recognise something as evil and something as good.

Man kills another man:  Evil

Man kills another man during a war:  Hero

Man kills man and donate that man's kidney to another man?  Fucking confusing.