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Forums - General - Why do americans say Obama is black?

libellule said:
alekth said:
He's black enough and considers himself black. Maybe a black community wouldn't consider him black, I certainly do. Then again when I grew up I'd probably see a black person once a month and I've never lived around a big black community.

If he was just a guy I knew and someone else didn't and say only knew his name at a party, I'd say something like "That's him there, the tall black guy" rather than mixed-race guy. Well, luckily he'd be ok with that, as with libellule I've been pretty much taught to avoid refering to people by their race until sure it's ok to do so. At least out of a circle of close friends or in my head.

well, now, I really try to avoid using "black" and mostly use "black skin"

also, the main issue here is that plenty of "black" people will easly call themselve .... "black" despite the fact that most of the "white" people will desesperately try to find others words to describe them as "colored person" "african person" etc ... to avoid to hurt them using ... black

same can be said with the word "negro" (the N word) in a way ...

Personally, I m using "black skin" because it allows me to destroy the ethnical group "black" ... (same for others groups). It is not because I m to shy to call someone black. It is mostly because I prefer to not put people in "racial case" as I consider the word "black" designs a race and not a simple skin color ...


Nobody said's colored person anymore. That's would either get someone fired are beat up.



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sieanr said:
shio said:


Yes, there's a lot less hate in Europe, which is also why there is less need for an individual to forcefully identify himself with a single race, in order to fit in.

You think so?

There is still plenty of latent racism in Europe, it just depends on where and what race you're talking about. Racism against muslims/middle easterns is pretty common on the continent. Just look at all the shit people from turkey have to put up with in Germany, where they are treated like second class citizens by the government. Same goes for france.

This : in Europe the big rift is beetween europeans and muslim immigrants and there's where the main conflict goes.



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Partly because he looks all black, partly because of an old American bias dating back to the heyday of race science that said "White * x = x" (x being any non-white race)



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As a black man, all I want to say is: Don't take this away from me! Let us have this one!!



shio said:
My point is, regardless of how you call yourself, your race will always be determined by your blood, not who you hang out with.

It is the same the few men that feel they should be women and try to have a sex change operation. They'll never be women, even after the operation. In comparison, there's no way for a person to change race (what MJ did isn't the same)

Woud you actually consider this one a man?



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shio said:
libellule said:

- sorry to burst your bubble : most of the mixed people will be seen as black people, or will be attached to the black people group in europe TOO.

 

That is not true, imo. I don't even remember anyone calling a mixed person "black". And I also have been to France many times.

Where I currently live we have a huge black community and another gypsy community. It is irrelevant if a mixed guy hangs out more with people of  a certain race, they'll always be mixed.

libellule said:

the main difference between NA and Europe is that you have a lot less HATE between the group in Europe compared to NA.
This is du to the historical difference between Na and Europe :

NA : white and black living together in 1 territory : racisme +  segregation + slavery : big hate/injury/violence

Europe : mostly white people, very few black people, black community is more recent
(historically black are in the colonnial empire and they only recently come to Europe territory) 
: racisme but no segregation and no actual slavery in Europe territory : less hate

Yes, there's a lot less hate in Europe, which is also why there is less need for an individual to forcefully identify himself with a single race, in order to fit in.

That is soooooo wrong.  On so many different levels.

For one... the difference between White and Black employment in the UK = the difference between White and Black employment in the US.

Now when it comes to France's unemployment levels for different races... let's just say it's MUCH worse.  When you can find the numbers anyway.  Since they tend to play "colorblind" laws.  As in, the government doesn't consider you a different race... even though everybody else does.

When it comes to Civil Rights laws... usually the US is ahead.

 

I mean, ask yourself this shio.  If Barak Obama was just some unknown guy walking down the streets of ANY europeon town... and someone were to go behind him, and ask the nice "non racist" europeon people in the streets.  "Say what race was that man right infront of me."


What do you think they would say?  Black... or "Half-white, half-black".  In the US we're just a little bit more straightfoward.

Outside of what someone on the street sees you as and the possible racism that might entail... what the heck does what race you are in the first place?



I don't get why Europeans are trying to argue racism and hate in America.

I'd argue that we are far less racist than Europeans, given the amount of cultures our country has. Most European countries have a very small ethnic minority, which would allow them to leave less impeded, whereas in the US, you have a significant number of minorities in black and hispanics, which would tend to cause far greater issues, yet we've largely dealt with them.

Call me back when Europe has a country that has 30% of its citizens in a minority group. Until that happens, all arguments are pretty irrelevant...For the amount of minorities Europe has, there is a lot of strife.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

To be honest I always wondered this myself. Around here if you are half black and half anything else they just call you black. They also tend to call anyone who is Bi sexual simply gay and anyone who is part Hispanic Mexican.  Funny enough anyone from the middleast or looks to be is called certain other names. People love to form perfect little groups in which there ideas about them must be correct.



d21lewis said:
As a black man, all I want to say is: Don't take this away from me! Let us have this one!!

Lol I was gonna say that. I don't know how it is in other countries, but in the U.S. most people will indentify a Half Black/Half White person as Black.



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Kasz216 said:

I mean, ask yourself this shio.  If Barak Obama was just some unknown guy walking down the streets of ANY europeon town... and someone were to go behind him, and ask the nice "non racist" europeon people in the streets.  "Say what race was that man right infront of me."


What do you think they would say?  Black... or "Half-white, half-black".  In the US we're just a little bit more straightfoward.

Outside of what someone on the street sees you as and the possible racism that might entail... what the heck does what race you are in the first place?

I would probably call him "mulato", which in portuguese means a person descendent of both black and white.

Listen, I know a couple of mixed guys, and one of them in particular I know no one would call him black EVER. He's got darker skin, but the features are very european.

alekth said:
shio said:
My point is, regardless of how you call yourself, your race will always be determined by your blood, not who you hang out with.

It is the same the few men that feel they should be women and try to have a sex change operation. They'll never be women, even after the operation. In comparison, there's no way for a person to change race (what MJ did isn't the same)

Woud you actually consider this one a man?

I can tell you I wouldn't call her a "woman" before the sex change, and the pre-sex change is the part that's better comparable to the black/half-black issue.

But yes, I would call her a woman now, but she isn't technically.

 

alekth said:
shio said:
My point is, regardless of how you call yourself, your race will always be determined by your blood, not who you hang out with.

It is the same the few men that feel they should be women and try to have a sex change operation. They'll never be women, even after the operation. In comparison, there's no way for a person to change race (what MJ did isn't the same)

Woud you actually consider this one a man?