| kn said: @Sqrl: 1) Again, I'm most certainly not an expert on the Wiimote and I agree that the actual transmission of data from the Wiimote to the Wii is probably near zero latency -- or something like 10 or 15ms which is insignificant. What I'm questioning is the ability of the Wiimote's ability to read the IR sensor with a high enough sampling rate and with low enough latency that there is the *hardware* possibility of 1:1 data transmission from the Wiimote side. I've always been under the impression that IR devices generally come with a bit of lag inherently but this may not be the case. We are, of course, using light which has no perceptible delay but how fast is the IR receiver in the Wiimote? How many samples per second is it grabbing? 2) Also, how exactly does the Wiimote tell how a wiimote is oriented in space? Is it purely accelerometer? There are a couple of games -- SMG comes to mind -- that use very fine movements with the wiimote pointed vertically. The IR sensor is no longer line of site and that is coming purely from Wiimote internals. 3) Wii Sports Baseball is an interesting phenomenon also. You can hold the Wiimote back, wave it around, up, down, etc. and the game fairly closely tracks the movement even though the IR isn't pointed at the sensor bar.... I find it hard to believe that the accelerometers are that good, but maybe they are... It sure seems that the device is behaving as if it has a basic gyro in it... 4) All that said, the Wii side is also in question. Assuming for a moment that the wiimote is capable of sampling the wiimote's location in 3D space at least 60 times per second and can transmit those 60 samples with lag under 100-150ms, then we have to rely on the console to interpret. We will need a minimum of 60fps to keep everything looking fairly smooth when the action gets really fast... In order to do that, I suspect graphics quality would have to take a fairly decent hit as more and more resources are dedicated to keeping the 1:1 ratio intact both between wiimote and wii as well as on-screen... 5) Can it be done, though, is the big question. So far, the answer has been a "maybe" at best. Let's hope someone figures it out and charts a new course for the Wiimote.... |
1) Well on the subject of the IR sensor, I know it was made by PixArt. I found a press release a while back...let me quote it now that I found it again.
http://www.wiiregamers.com/news/2492
"PixArt Imaging Incorporation (PixArt), a market leader in CMOS sensor SoC (System-On-a-Chip) and related application semiconductors, today announces a strategic relationship with Nintendo Co., Ltd., to provide object tracking technology for Nintendo's new-generation gaming controller, the Wii Remote. PixArt's premium tracking technology will enable Nintendo to present innovative interaction gaming controllers for its new-generation gaming platform, Wii.
PixArt's Multi-Object Tracking engine (MOT sensor) technology can track multiple objects in an unbelievably quick and responsive way. As a result, Nintendo can enable its new gaming controller to interact with people by tracking the movement of the Wii Remote. The playing experience will be unprecedented, exciting and easy, even for young children or older people who cannot operate the traditional gaming controllers. "PixArt's technology enables a quick, dynamic play experience," commented Genyo Takeda, Senior Managing Director/General Manager, Integrated Research & Development Division, Nintendo Co., Ltd. "With PixArt's technology, Nintendo will usher in a new era of video games." "It is PixArt's pleasure to partner with Nintendo, a technology leader, to launch the most powerful and pleasing solution for a gaming platform," said Sen Huang, Chief Executive Officer of PixArt.
"The Multiple-Object Tracking engine (MOT sensor ) has the highest performance ever in the market, and teaming with Nintendo means a gaming experience that is truly intuitive and inspiringly easy." "In the world of interaction, every realistic operation can be simulated in a computerized game. Through play of such simulation, any person can learn very quickly and efficiently in a virtual way. Integrated tracking technology from proven vendors like PixArt will enhance the gaming experience for the overwhelming majority of all-generation gamers." said Sen Huang. "
There aren't detailed specs for the thing that I can find, but considering that there are highspeed IR sensors similar to how highspeed cameras work I am fairly confident it can sample at a speed great enough to deliver the precision needed. It truly only needs about 30 samples a second to be sufficient, and given that there are IR cameras for the home video market that would need to hit around that range to be fluid I think it is a safe assumption that the PixArt sensor is at least as good and probably better in terms of sample rate.
2) The orientation in space is easy. When you are holding the Wii mote gravity is pulling down on the accelerometer at aproximately 9.8 m/s^2. This constant pull in the same direction acts like a compass does in telling you which direction is north, only this compass operates in 3-D.
3) This is only the accelerometers, and that you don't think they are that good disturbs me a bit. They are that good and better. I have on several occasions connected my Wii-Mote via bluetooth to my PC and used 3rd party software to see the graph of the Wii-Mote accelerometers and what they are detecting. They are extremely sensitive, far more than Wii-Baseball shows. The trick is that a hyper-sensitive responce on screen is no-fun, and it also makes gesture detection fairly difficult. Its not impossible but its difficult so the easy route is to turn it down a bit. Keep in mind that Nintendo billed Wii-Sports as a basic demo of the product and not as something that explores everything it is capable of.
4) Ok first of all I don't know where you are getting the lag of 100-150ms, this is ludicrous. That is 0.1 to 0.15 seconds. Those are the kinds of latency you might see online when playing with friends because of two factors, #1 distance and #2 TCP/IP protocol layers. This is of course not to mention that this kind of ping and latency is measured in a "there and back" format. So in the case of the Wii-mote it only has to go one way and thus is under much less time constraints...and yet its task is much simpler in terms of traversal.
Now on to the Wii side of the equation and the processing. Ok first of all, this idea that the graphics would suffer ...take it out of your head and throw it away and stomp on it. The GPU handles the graphics, the CPU would handle the data interpretation. Completely different parts of the system. If anything at all it would limit the physics and AI of the NPCs, but it would be hard pressed (damn near impossible) to impact the graphics.
Now the key to understand here is that the interpretation of the data(the right way) from the Wii-Mote is not taxing in the sense of CPU cycles, it is taxing in the sense of puzzling out an algorithm. The taxing part comes during development when you are making the functions that are going to handle the data and interpret it. Not during runtime while the CPU is running those functions.
The problem is that many developers will look at this and decide to build a system that is inneficient rather than elegent. The elegent system does it right without lag but is difficult to code, the clunky system is large, CPU taxing, and usually varies in effectiveness but is very easy to code.
5) yes, I am telling you as someone who literally has hands on with the device that everything is in place technologically speaking. It simply needs a studio that is willing to put in the time and effort (and it will require a fairly large effort) to come along and actually complete the task properly.
Many many games don't need full 1:1 and so I wouldn't expect those studios to try it, so this idea that because no Wii-Game has done it means it is impossible is quite silly. There have been a handful of games that would benefit from full 1:1 and off the top of my head I think they were Red Steel and ....nope thats about it. Add more if you can think of them, but the point remains that not many games have needed it so of course nobody is willing to put in the effort yet. They want to make sure they can reuse the code for a project that big.
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| To Each Man, Responsibility |
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