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Forums - General - Most Influential Civilization?

 

Most Influential Civilization?

British Empire 24 34.78%
 
Roman Empire (not counting Byzantine) 27 39.13%
 
Spanish Empire 2 2.90%
 
United States of America 6 8.70%
 
Islamic Empires/Dynasties 1 1.45%
 
Other (please post in detail) 9 13.04%
 
Total:69
pastro243 said:
headshot91 said:
Kasz216 said:

Well... lets take a look at the list.

 

1) British Empire... too young.

2) Roman Empire... not counting the Byzantines, it doesn't really work.

3) Spanish Empire... again too young, and largely influenced by others.

4) USA... Also, too young... with the one caveat being that the "American" way of life does seem to be permiating across the world in was even the British Empire didn't when they actually OWNED most of the world.   Not yet... If the USA stays on top for a while more though... all culture may be a hybrid of US culture.

5)  Islamic Empires/Dynasties... Maybe... they did di a lot, but a lot of it didn't end up working well... a lot of stuff having to be rediscovered.

Those off the Board.

 

1) China... too inturned on themselves.

2) Greece... Alexander the Great... did do a lot.  Still... doesn't seem like enough.  They influenced the Romans... but the romans did all the real legwork.

3) Mongol Empire.  The largest land empire in the world... and debatibly the biggest in the world. 

4) Akkadians, Precursors to Bablyon and pretty much the Islamic Empire.

5) Persian Empire... Huge Empire.  Powerful... etc.

 

 

I'm going Mongols.  Why?

1) Yuan Dynasty.

2) Mughal Empire

3) They caused a crapload of destruction where they came.  This was greatly infuential... in the demography greatly changed... and you could definitly say your country wasn't the same if the Mongolians came in.

4) The Mongols lead to the rise of Moscow, and effected why Russian history ended up.

5) Greatly expanded europes knowledge of the world, which lead to colonilization and trips like Columbus.

 

What? The langauge of English permeated across the world from India to North America to Australia because they were colonies of the British at one time or another. Also, the British empire has had a MASSIVE political, linguistic (mentioned) and cultural legacy. I mean, the english langauge is the language of the world, english law is the basis for many different countries judicial systems and dont even ge tme started on the cultural aspect- Football, cricket, tennis, golf, literature,architecture, education have all been higely influenced by this empire. And also you know, the industrial revolution, and the basis of many scientific principles today was started in Britain, and spread across the world via our trade!


I think roman law has had a bigger impact. And most of those things can be said of most guys on the list, spanish empire had almost everything in america and passed spanish(castellano) as a language.

Britain had an impact on politics, but so did france, USA, Greeks and romans.

So I think the one that made most, if that can be decided, are the greeks in the way of thinking and organizing and the romans in terms of putting those things in a lot of people with later empires expanding on that. Of course this is for western civilization since I think China and Japan have also played important roles.

Also, romans did a lot, but they kinda got stuck in their last part in technology, art, economy, etc... at least the occidental part.

British law is actually the basis of say the Australian and US law, it used certain parts fom roman law, but UK law was much more global etc.

USA has impact on politics, but that really only started happening in the early 20th century. Britain has had an impact for hundreds of years prior too.

Also i think the fact Britain started the industrial revolution influences me in saying they were the most influential society, as this led to ttodays consumers product led society and globalisation up to a point.

Of course we all know everyone has an opinion and so people may agree/disagree



Around the Network
Slimebeast said:
tarheel91 said:
Rath said:
tarheel91 said:
Rath said:
ManusJustus said:

Greek civilzation influenced the Romans, so Greeks should most of the credit for Western Civilization and Western ideals (democracy, language, monogamy, and so forth).

Other than the obvious Middle Eastern Empires (Egypt, Babylon), we should also consider Chinese and Indian civilizations. They made huge contributions to civilization, from gunpowder to mathematics, but if you live in the West you probably didn't cover that much in school, so you think they weren't as important.

But the Romans took the Greek philosophy (by brute force as it happens) and spread it, essentially creating todays developed world. The developed world today is essentially based on where the romans conquered and where those countries managed to outnumber the natives (ie. America, Australia, New Zealand).

The ideals of Western civilization came from the Greeks, but without the Romans it would never have spread.

We're talking about influence here, not importance.

Can you explain what you mean please?

The Romans are undeniably one of the most important civilizations in history.  However, that does not make them one of the most influential.  You yourself describe them as taking Greek culture and spreading it.  THEY are not influencing anyone.  The Greeks are.  The messenger has no influence over the message he delivers.

 

That's just totally ridiculous, man.

It almost sounds like you think ideas are magical entities.

Application and realization of ideas is just as important as coming up with ideas.

If a mafia boss tells his thug to murder someone, the thug still influenced the murdered person. Clearly they both influenced the victim. And in the case of Romans versus Greeks it's even more complicated since the Romans didn't just passively take orders from the Greek.

Agreed.  However, again, we're talking about influence, not importance.  The two concepts are very distinct.  Your use of the word influence in your example is just terrible.  You can't just substitute influence for any old verb (in this case, killed).

Rath admits that the ideals of Western civilization came from the Greeks.  THAT is influence.  THEIR ideas are the ones that influence us today.  The Romans spreading those ideas is very important, but it doesn't magically mean they're the ones influencing Western cultures with those beliefs.  It's still the Greeks beliefs that are influencing cultures.  I guess you could argue that the Romans basically decided that Greek beliefs were best, and then imposed that decision on Western culture, but it's still the Greeks who influenced the Romans who influenced everyone, so my point still stands even if you look at it from that perspective.



tarheel91 said:
Slimebeast said:
tarheel91 said:
Rath said:
tarheel91 said:
Rath said:
ManusJustus said:

Greek civilzation influenced the Romans, so Greeks should most of the credit for Western Civilization and Western ideals (democracy, language, monogamy, and so forth).

Other than the obvious Middle Eastern Empires (Egypt, Babylon), we should also consider Chinese and Indian civilizations. They made huge contributions to civilization, from gunpowder to mathematics, but if you live in the West you probably didn't cover that much in school, so you think they weren't as important.

But the Romans took the Greek philosophy (by brute force as it happens) and spread it, essentially creating todays developed world. The developed world today is essentially based on where the romans conquered and where those countries managed to outnumber the natives (ie. America, Australia, New Zealand).

The ideals of Western civilization came from the Greeks, but without the Romans it would never have spread.

We're talking about influence here, not importance.

Can you explain what you mean please?

The Romans are undeniably one of the most important civilizations in history.  However, that does not make them one of the most influential.  You yourself describe them as taking Greek culture and spreading it.  THEY are not influencing anyone.  The Greeks are.  The messenger has no influence over the message he delivers.

 

That's just totally ridiculous, man.

It almost sounds like you think ideas are magical entities.

Application and realization of ideas is just as important as coming up with ideas.

If a mafia boss tells his thug to murder someone, the thug still influenced the murdered person. Clearly they both influenced the victim. And in the case of Romans versus Greeks it's even more complicated since the Romans didn't just passively take orders from the Greek.

Agreed.  However, again, we're talking about influence, not importance.  The two concepts are very distinct.  Your use of the word influence in your example is just terrible.  You can't just substitute influence for any old verb (in this case, killed).

Rath admits that the ideals of Western civilization came from the Greeks.  THAT is influence.  THEIR ideas are the ones that influence us today.  The Romans spreading those ideas is very important, but it doesn't magically mean they're the ones influencing Western cultures with those beliefs.  It's still the Greeks beliefs that are influencing cultures.  I guess you could argue that the Romans basically decided that Greek beliefs were best, and then imposed that decision on Western culture, but it's still the Greeks who influenced the Romans who influenced everyone, so my point still stands even if you look at it from that perspective.

Now I'm not one who underrates the Greek. I'm borderline putting them first before the Romans.

I understand what you mean, but I think we define influence differently. I may be wrong, but in my book influence simply means that something affects something else. It could be an idea, it could be a physical action. Both bear weight, and that's why it's so hard at least for me to decide if the Greeks or the Romans were the most influential.



Slimebeast said:
tarheel91 said:
Slimebeast said:
tarheel91 said:
Rath said:
tarheel91 said:
Rath said:
ManusJustus said:

Greek civilzation influenced the Romans, so Greeks should most of the credit for Western Civilization and Western ideals (democracy, language, monogamy, and so forth).

Other than the obvious Middle Eastern Empires (Egypt, Babylon), we should also consider Chinese and Indian civilizations. They made huge contributions to civilization, from gunpowder to mathematics, but if you live in the West you probably didn't cover that much in school, so you think they weren't as important.

But the Romans took the Greek philosophy (by brute force as it happens) and spread it, essentially creating todays developed world. The developed world today is essentially based on where the romans conquered and where those countries managed to outnumber the natives (ie. America, Australia, New Zealand).

The ideals of Western civilization came from the Greeks, but without the Romans it would never have spread.

We're talking about influence here, not importance.

Can you explain what you mean please?

The Romans are undeniably one of the most important civilizations in history.  However, that does not make them one of the most influential.  You yourself describe them as taking Greek culture and spreading it.  THEY are not influencing anyone.  The Greeks are.  The messenger has no influence over the message he delivers.

 

That's just totally ridiculous, man.

It almost sounds like you think ideas are magical entities.

Application and realization of ideas is just as important as coming up with ideas.

If a mafia boss tells his thug to murder someone, the thug still influenced the murdered person. Clearly they both influenced the victim. And in the case of Romans versus Greeks it's even more complicated since the Romans didn't just passively take orders from the Greek.

Agreed.  However, again, we're talking about influence, not importance.  The two concepts are very distinct.  Your use of the word influence in your example is just terrible.  You can't just substitute influence for any old verb (in this case, killed).

Rath admits that the ideals of Western civilization came from the Greeks.  THAT is influence.  THEIR ideas are the ones that influence us today.  The Romans spreading those ideas is very important, but it doesn't magically mean they're the ones influencing Western cultures with those beliefs.  It's still the Greeks beliefs that are influencing cultures.  I guess you could argue that the Romans basically decided that Greek beliefs were best, and then imposed that decision on Western culture, but it's still the Greeks who influenced the Romans who influenced everyone, so my point still stands even if you look at it from that perspective.

Now I'm not one who underrates the Greek. I'm borderline putting them first before the Romans.

I understand what you mean, but I think we define influence differently. I may be wrong, but in my book influence simply means that something affects something else. It could be an idea, it could be a physical action. Both bear weight, and that's why it's so hard at least for me to decide if the Greeks or the Romans were the most influential.

I don't think either are. :P  I think the Chinese were the most influential civilization by a longshot.

This argument has to do with Western culture and who's influence that is due to (look at the originally quoted post).  It doesn't have to do with influence in general.  Politically, the Romans influenced the Western world plenty, and it did have some inventions of its own.  However, Western culture is due far more to the influence of the Greeks than the Romans.  That is my point.



headshot91 said:
pastro243 said:
headshot91 said:
Kasz216 said:

Well... lets take a look at the list.

 

1) British Empire... too young.

2) Roman Empire... not counting the Byzantines, it doesn't really work.

3) Spanish Empire... again too young, and largely influenced by others.

4) USA... Also, too young... with the one caveat being that the "American" way of life does seem to be permiating across the world in was even the British Empire didn't when they actually OWNED most of the world.   Not yet... If the USA stays on top for a while more though... all culture may be a hybrid of US culture.

5)  Islamic Empires/Dynasties... Maybe... they did di a lot, but a lot of it didn't end up working well... a lot of stuff having to be rediscovered.

Those off the Board.

 

1) China... too inturned on themselves.

2) Greece... Alexander the Great... did do a lot.  Still... doesn't seem like enough.  They influenced the Romans... but the romans did all the real legwork.

3) Mongol Empire.  The largest land empire in the world... and debatibly the biggest in the world. 

4) Akkadians, Precursors to Bablyon and pretty much the Islamic Empire.

5) Persian Empire... Huge Empire.  Powerful... etc.

 

 

I'm going Mongols.  Why?

1) Yuan Dynasty.

2) Mughal Empire

3) They caused a crapload of destruction where they came.  This was greatly infuential... in the demography greatly changed... and you could definitly say your country wasn't the same if the Mongolians came in.

4) The Mongols lead to the rise of Moscow, and effected why Russian history ended up.

5) Greatly expanded europes knowledge of the world, which lead to colonilization and trips like Columbus.

 

What? The langauge of English permeated across the world from India to North America to Australia because they were colonies of the British at one time or another. Also, the British empire has had a MASSIVE political, linguistic (mentioned) and cultural legacy. I mean, the english langauge is the language of the world, english law is the basis for many different countries judicial systems and dont even ge tme started on the cultural aspect- Football, cricket, tennis, golf, literature,architecture, education have all been higely influenced by this empire. And also you know, the industrial revolution, and the basis of many scientific principles today was started in Britain, and spread across the world via our trade!


I think roman law has had a bigger impact. And most of those things can be said of most guys on the list, spanish empire had almost everything in america and passed spanish(castellano) as a language.

Britain had an impact on politics, but so did france, USA, Greeks and romans.

So I think the one that made most, if that can be decided, are the greeks in the way of thinking and organizing and the romans in terms of putting those things in a lot of people with later empires expanding on that. Of course this is for western civilization since I think China and Japan have also played important roles.

Also, romans did a lot, but they kinda got stuck in their last part in technology, art, economy, etc... at least the occidental part.

British law is actually the basis of say the Australian and US law, it used certain parts fom roman law, but UK law was much more global etc.

USA has impact on politics, but that really only started happening in the early 20th century. Britain has had an impact for hundreds of years prior too.

Also i think the fact Britain started the industrial revolution influences me in saying they were the most influential society, as this led to ttodays consumers product led society and globalisation up to a point.

Of course we all know everyone has an opinion and so people may agree/disagree

Well british law has things that come from roman right, and USA, France and Britain are influence for modern constitutions and liberal democracies. The whole idea of constitutional supremacy comes from the US.

It really isnt important to establish who is the most influential as to know how they influenced and why, so I agree people can have different opinnions, but anyway Id trace most western way of thinking to the greeks and the important spread of these to the romans with each civilization helping after.



Around the Network
pastro243 said:
headshot91 said:
pastro243 said:
headshot91 said:
Kasz216 said:

Well... lets take a look at the list.

 

1) British Empire... too young.

2) Roman Empire... not counting the Byzantines, it doesn't really work.

3) Spanish Empire... again too young, and largely influenced by others.

4) USA... Also, too young... with the one caveat being that the "American" way of life does seem to be permiating across the world in was even the British Empire didn't when they actually OWNED most of the world.   Not yet... If the USA stays on top for a while more though... all culture may be a hybrid of US culture.

5)  Islamic Empires/Dynasties... Maybe... they did di a lot, but a lot of it didn't end up working well... a lot of stuff having to be rediscovered.

Those off the Board.

 

1) China... too inturned on themselves.

2) Greece... Alexander the Great... did do a lot.  Still... doesn't seem like enough.  They influenced the Romans... but the romans did all the real legwork.

3) Mongol Empire.  The largest land empire in the world... and debatibly the biggest in the world. 

4) Akkadians, Precursors to Bablyon and pretty much the Islamic Empire.

5) Persian Empire... Huge Empire.  Powerful... etc.

 

 

I'm going Mongols.  Why?

1) Yuan Dynasty.

2) Mughal Empire

3) They caused a crapload of destruction where they came.  This was greatly infuential... in the demography greatly changed... and you could definitly say your country wasn't the same if the Mongolians came in.

4) The Mongols lead to the rise of Moscow, and effected why Russian history ended up.

5) Greatly expanded europes knowledge of the world, which lead to colonilization and trips like Columbus.

 

What? The langauge of English permeated across the world from India to North America to Australia because they were colonies of the British at one time or another. Also, the British empire has had a MASSIVE political, linguistic (mentioned) and cultural legacy. I mean, the english langauge is the language of the world, english law is the basis for many different countries judicial systems and dont even ge tme started on the cultural aspect- Football, cricket, tennis, golf, literature,architecture, education have all been higely influenced by this empire. And also you know, the industrial revolution, and the basis of many scientific principles today was started in Britain, and spread across the world via our trade!


I think roman law has had a bigger impact. And most of those things can be said of most guys on the list, spanish empire had almost everything in america and passed spanish(castellano) as a language.

Britain had an impact on politics, but so did france, USA, Greeks and romans.

So I think the one that made most, if that can be decided, are the greeks in the way of thinking and organizing and the romans in terms of putting those things in a lot of people with later empires expanding on that. Of course this is for western civilization since I think China and Japan have also played important roles.

Also, romans did a lot, but they kinda got stuck in their last part in technology, art, economy, etc... at least the occidental part.

British law is actually the basis of say the Australian and US law, it used certain parts fom roman law, but UK law was much more global etc.

USA has impact on politics, but that really only started happening in the early 20th century. Britain has had an impact for hundreds of years prior too.

Also i think the fact Britain started the industrial revolution influences me in saying they were the most influential society, as this led to ttodays consumers product led society and globalisation up to a point.

Of course we all know everyone has an opinion and so people may agree/disagree

Well british law has things that come from roman right, and USA, France and Britain are influence for modern constitutions and liberal democracies. The whole idea of constitutional supremacy comes from the US.

It really isnt important to establish who is the most influential as to know how they influenced and why, so I agree people can have different opinnions, but anyway Id trace most western way of thinking to the greeks and the important spread of these to the romans with each civilization helping after.

i still say industrial revolution/ end thread :P

But again everyone has their own opinion



Although one can go on and on about the moral consequences of some civilizations' influences, the thread is only about who had the most influence: morality is technically outside the scope of this discussion.

I tend to consider some of the listed civilizations, influence-wise, as continuations of their predecessors, particularly in terms of Greece/Rome and UK/US. But in terms of influence on the current state of the world in forms that those civilizations might still recognize, I would consider it a toss-up between three: Anglo-American, Greco-Roman, and Chinese. It is true that Islamic dynasties have also had some influence, but many of the forms those influences took have been altered to the point where they're no longer recognizable unless you really dig deep. Case in point: it's thought that common law as used in most English-speaking countries (as opposed to civil law, popular in countries with a stronger Roman influence) was heavily influenced by Islamic law, but few people on either side of the equation actually know this.



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