@Qays
I don't understand your point. I never said they were opposites. Coffee and tea are different, but not opposites. Can you expand on what you are trying to say more, or are you misreading what I am saying?

I agree completely. FFX has one of the most overrated battle systems in the series. The battle system is one of the main reasons the game was so trivially easy: you always know who's going to move when, and you can always switch in other characters.



Your statement seemed to me to imply that turn-based isn't archaic because it's a different genre from action RPGs, and it's nonsensical to call an entire genre archaic or outdated. I just wanted to point out that there's a lot of room for fiddling with what exactly constitutes turn-based combat. Some games, like FFXIII, have done a great job at renovating "turn-based" combat without actually crossing the line into action RPG territory.

Soriku said: Gnizmo said: I think tea is archaic now-a-days with the advent of soda! Your entire premise is extremely flawed. Action RPGs are not an evolution of turn based. They have been around for nearly as long at this point. They are simply a different mode of play. To proclaim an entire style of play is archaic simply because you no longer enjoy it as much is simply out of touch. So long as the two types of games play differently then neither one can make the other archaic, out dated, or bad. Any claim is a person projecting their own values on the entire market through either ego, or ignorance. If it is based on ego, then there is nothing to be done. If it is based on ignorance, then people responding here saying they do not share the same opinion should prove the point. For me it's becoming a bigger preference than before, not something about ignorance or ego or whatever. It'd be something about those if I said I totally hate turn based now which I obviously don't.

You misunderstand. Allow me to elaborate. Your claim is that action RPGs supplant turn-based RPGs because they are more fun. In essence there are only two reasons to make this claim. First one would be that you think your gaming preference should be the universally accepted one. As such if you find a flaw in a game style then it is inferior to one you do not find a flaw in. Should a person prefer FPS to RPGs they would claim the FPS genre is simply better, and anyone who disagrees doesn't know what they are talking about. I don't believe this is your motivation, but I am certain others will attempt to (wrongly) push their opinion onto others.

The second would be ignorance of other gamers taste. You view it as an evolution, and see turn based as simply a technical limitation that has long since been solved. As such you do not think other people could possibly want turn based over action as you have not been exposed to someone who dislikes action RPGs, but enjoys turn based immensely.

This isn't to say that you don't have a right to your opinion. If you would prefer RPGs be action based then more power to you. There is plenty of game developers out there so that both of our needs can be met. The attempt to universalize your opinion is something I would object to. My commentary was meant to be on your sweeping claim, rather than your personal opinion. I am not concerned in the least as to why you prefer action RPGs to turn based so long as you do not try to claim that everyone else should as well.

FFX is my favorite game, and it was wasn't deep, it was pretty looking and fun though, it was basically as deep as pokemon (which is a complicated rock paper scissors), which is fun and turn based.

But then Valkyria Chronicles is a turn based RPG, basically a more strategic version of normal turn based isn't it?
I prefer the atb of basically every single one because its so damn slow. Are you you Counting ATB's as turn based beings you each take a turn? Because all I think of atb systems is Turn based with a time element added.

Edit: But I still think no no matter what my opinion doesn't matter it's what sells aka what the most people want.

I think most FPS are  too simple because their simply point and shoot. AKA Call of Duty. So it sells, well, obviously people don't think so.

If your asking people what they think is archaeic... then I guess that works... because about NSMB, fits that category more than turn based does and it sells.
So basically are you are asking people if they like simple turn based anymore... and if they did in the first place?

Qays said: lol, how was FF X's battle system deep? :P I liked the Sphere Grid but when it came to the actual battling it wasn't much different from other turn based games. I agree completely. FFX has one of the most overrated battle systems in the series. The battle system is one of the main reasons the game was so trivially easy: you always know who's going to move when, and you can always switch in other characters. I don't understand your point. I never said they were opposites. Coffee and tea are different, but not opposites. Can you expand on what you are trying to say more, or are you misreading what I am saying? Your statement seemed to me to imply that turn-based isn't archaic because it's a different genre from action RPGs, and it's nonsensical to call an entire genre archaic or outdated. I just wanted to point out that there's a lot of room for fiddling with what exactly constitutes turn-based combat. Some games, like FFXIII, have done a great job at renovating "turn-based" combat without actually crossing the line into action RPG territory.

Ah ok well, no. My point was supposed to be that some people will enjoy turn-based because of what it is, and not like action based for what it is. The two are not entirely divorced from each other, but they are fundamentally different, and offer different modes of play. There are middle ground options, but the compromise something of the core of each style of play.

Soriku said: routsounmanman said: No way. FFX had the best FF battle system ever, so deep. FFXIII was a turd in comparison; even FFXII is superior, and gosh I hated that game. Back to square one, Square lol, how was FF X's battle system deep? :P I liked the Sphere Grid but when it came to the actual battling it wasn't much different from other turn based games. I'd prefer if more devs went for more innovative turn based battle systems like Baten Kaitos Origins or Paper Mario as I said before. @andre Agree. TTYD combat is fun.

That's the thing, Final Fantasy did make a semi-innovative system where you needed to press buttons outside of commands and utilize more than just the stereotypical 'Attack + heal' Strategy.  It was Called FFVIII.  But tons of people whined that the game sucked, despite its obvious upgrades to FFVII, which was even a downgrade to FFVI in both variety and available actions in battle.  So they changed it and went back to a more 'classic' style with FFIX.

FFX was actually another unique and fun concept.  The bar on the right that told you the progress of battle and which stage you would attack really helped, as it let you plan ahead in tougher boss battles.  Of course, it can be said that the fact that they had to add such a system either shows that Final Fantasy has flaws that require a handicap, or that they were trying to make the game more user friendly.  I think its a little bit of both.  But in terms of versatility and pure 'fun', FFX definitely comes in second for me in ranking of the Final Fantasy series.  And like FFVIII, was a clear step forward for the simple 'press X to attack or heal' systems of FFI-VII.

Ugh, I know. What's that one stupid turn-based game? That REALLY old, outdated one? Oh yeah, Chess.

Thats like saying chess is archaic. I mean its one of the oldest games in existence but its completely timeless. Chess will still be relevant in 200 years time whereas 99% of these action rpgs will be dead, buried and forgotten. What I think its obvious that video gaming is moving more and more towards real time gameplay, but that doesn't mean that turn based games are necessarily old fashioned. I mean look at civilisation? Its still considered one of the most important and relevant games in existence and its turn based.

As always its how you implement something that determines relevance, not the entire concept. Plus semi real-time and real time RPG gameplay has existed in RPGs for a very long time. It isn't anything new or innovative.

Haha, I like how you think, Farmland.

Sorry, did we play the same game? As I've said before, literally the only three strategies you needed to absolutely destroy VIII are:

1. If you haven't been junctioning just spam GFs.
2. If you have been junctioning just spam Attack.
3. If it's the endgame cast Aura and spam limit breaks.

VIII was innovative and risktaking and utterly, completely broken and imbalanced.