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Forums - General - Strange (and dangerous?) Immigration law.

mirgro said:
This is quite interesting. It's even more interesting that it is supported by republicans, the greatest "keep government out of my life" type of people. I mean, seriously, how can you justify your argument about how government shouldn't meddle in your money, when it can meddle with your body as much as it wants?

To put it in the words of someone who is wiser in these matters than any of us:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

If a cop knows two blocks down a house was robbed, and he sees someone walking down the street with a TV, I think most republicans want that man stopped and questioned, even though the cob did not see that man commit a crime. 

A country is suposed to be about the rule of law. The people we intrust to make sure that law is upheld need some level of ability to do there job. If someone is suspected of committing a crime, an officer of the law should be allowed to investigate further.



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The_vagabond7 said:
Alright, Mafoo what if you had a small paper cut and a trace amount of blood on your shirt cuff they demanded to know where that blood came from and if you can't answer it to their satisfaction they haul you to the station until you can prove you didn't murder somebody and it's just blood from your paper cut?

Being hispanic is not the same as having a shirt drenched in blood...

Being hispanic is not the same as looking like your an illegal alien as well. I think if a cop arrested someone, or even questioned him more then he should, and the only reason that cop gives for doing so is "he was hispanic", then that cop should be reprimanded.



Kasz216 said:

How can you tell the difference from a hispanic person and an illegal spanish person though?  Look for people with "I'm from Mexico" T-shirts?

I mean, with suicide bombers and stuff there are actual other cues you can tell... illegal aliens... I can't see what that would be.

I am not a cop, but I am sure if you ask one, every one of them will have an answer. I bet you would be hard pressed to find one who said "good question. I have no clue".



Here is what I love about Republican laws....

This law has the chance to do one of two things:

It could be the avenue that allows cops to question known ilegal aliens with virtually no American citizens being questioned, and thus helping us catch people in this country how have committed a crime (someone I hope everyone wants).

or:

It could become something that ends up negatively effecting many Americans, or foreign nationals who are here legally, and be way to evasive into there lives.

If the second one becomes the problem, there is a very simple solution. Stop doing it. Change the law.

Now Democrate laws, like medicare and medicaid... try overturning that shit. See what happens.

The worst thing this could be, is a bad idea that's quickly fixed. I am ok with making that mistake on the chance that this becomes a great tool to help keep this country a rule of laws.



TheRealMafoo said:
Racial profiling is not a bad thing.

If the last 50 people who blew up a plane had black hair and dark skin, and I could only check 10 out of 200 passengers each flight, I would be doing all passengers a diservice if I didn't start with the people who have black hair and dark skin.

I have black hair and dark skin, and I get pulled out of the line all the time. I am happy they are doing that. If I am on a plain that's going to get blown up, there is a 99% change it's going to be from someone who looks like me. Check them all, because I don't want to die.


Now, as for this law... not a huge fan of it, but I also don't want the police not to be able to check if someone is here illegally, just because they have yet to commit a crime.

Come to think of it, if they are here illegally, they have committed a crime.

So let me ask you this... If a cop sees someone walking down the street who has blood all over there cloths, and looks like they have been scratched by a woman, should they not be allowed to stop that man, because as far as the cop has seen, that man has not committed a crime?

I don't think everyone who is hispanic qualifies as someone who "looks illegal", but for those that you pretty much know are, why should they not be allowed to investigate?

What's the difference in that, and asking the bloody man who is just walking down the street, how he got bloody?

Racial profiling works for terrorists, but only in the very short term. Do you really think terrorists are stupid and don't know this racial profiling goes on? Once it starts being implemented heavily the terrorists start changing the people they recruit. There are plenty of would-be terrorists that don't fit the racial profile norm.

I too don't mind being checked, but only if it works.



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Sadly, I think there is far too much concern in the United States about illegal immigrants and Racial Profiling, and not nearly enough on dramatically increasing the security on the US-Mexico border. If the United States put a significant effort into it they could probably reduce the number of people who crossed the border illegally each year by 90% to 95% ... This would result in massive benefits to both illegal immigration as well as crime because it would (hopefully) cut down on the guns and drugs that cross the border which should significantly hamper the ability of drug cartels to operate.



TheRealMafoo said:
mirgro said:
This is quite interesting. It's even more interesting that it is supported by republicans, the greatest "keep government out of my life" type of people. I mean, seriously, how can you justify your argument about how government shouldn't meddle in your money, when it can meddle with your body as much as it wants?

To put it in the words of someone who is wiser in these matters than any of us:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

If a cop knows two blocks down a house was robbed, and he sees someone walking down the street with a TV, I think most republicans want that man stopped and questioned, even though the cob did not see that man commit a crime. 

A country is suposed to be about the rule of law. The people we intrust to make sure that law is upheld need some level of ability to do there job. If someone is suspected of committing a crime, an officer of the law should be allowed to investigate further.

I agree with you here. Except that your analogy is deeply flawed.



I don't understand the controversy because the police and other authorities do the same thing all the time already.

Let's say cops decide to look for drugs at a club. They wait outside and stop customers based on "reasonable suspicion". They won't pick people just randomly, they will actively choose people with typical appearance associated with the use of drugs, based on the cop's own (subjective) experience. They question and possibly frisk the persons, but that's not the same thing as arresting a person.

If you go through that customs thingy in airports - which people are the customs guys more likely to check for drugs and other stuff? They don't do it randomly, they choose people based on lots of different characteristics no matter if it's politically correct or not.

Same with asylum seekers (who in the EU every nation seeks to stop even before they have a chance to enter your country - meaning at the airport). They check the papers based on the ethnical looks of individuals. A Swedish looking person will never be asked to show his Visa when entering through any Western European airport.

Same with Mafoo's example of airports and the search for terrorists. Why would they start searching the bags of an ordinary looking family with 2 parents, 2 kids and a dog?

The proposal says "would require police to stop anyone suspected of being an illegal immigrant." and "the police must stop people on “reasonable suspicion”".

This is ordinary everyday police work and has nothing to do with discrimination. It's a certain infringement on your personal integrity, but that's how the police must work - to check lots of innocent people to find just a few criminals.



I don't care if I would fit into the bracket for being a terrorist. If it was people like me, I would understand why it would be me getting randomly searched. As long as safety is paramount then fine, if people who looked like me where suspected of being illegal then so be it, search.

After all, if you have nothing to hide then why care if your being searched? You would have nothing to worry about...

EDIT: They actually do this in London, they check if anyone is acting "suspeciously" and question them and ask for identity.



FootballFan said:

I don't care if I would fit into the bracket for being a terrorist. If it was people like me, I would understand why it would be me getting randomly searched. As long as safety is paramount then fine, if people who looked like me where suspected of being illegal then so be it, search.

After all, if you have nothing to hide then why care if your being searched? You would have nothing to worry about...

EDIT: They actually do this in London, they check if anyone is acting "suspeciously" and question them and ask for identity.

They do this in Spain's metros quite often. A bunch of workers will get on and start asking for papers while people are sitting down. Me being tall, white, nlonde, blue eyed has kept them from checking me. They almost always just pass me by.