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Forums - Sony - PS3 Custom Firmware 3.21OO Release Imminent

Netyaroze said:
Wlakiz said:
Netyaroze said:
Wlakiz said:
dsister44 said:
Wlakiz said:

1. I am saying they can ban you the moment you logon regardless of your ip

2. Good to know

3. Thats the risk you take

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Digital_rights_management :"Since keys can be revoked in newer releases, this is only a temporary attack, and new keys must continually be discovered in order to decrypt the latest discs. This cat and mouse game has gone through several cycles."

Of course I'm not going to log in with the same account every time

3. The more I think about this the more I think that they can't do it. If any of the big 3 decide that I am not allowed to play a game that I pay for then I am sueing 

4. I believe this is why you need to update your firmware. Whenever I play a blu-ray movie it says that I need to have the latest firmware or else it will have problems playing. This should be fixed with cfw. If we ever get any =p

I highly doubt they can use the code to prevent my PS3 from playing blu-rays 

 

Well its more or less if they blacklist your PS3's keys, it'll prevent you from playing any future BDs.. but whatever, you can still hug your otherOS.

 

Sorry I have to ask:

 

You assume that every PS3 or Bluray player has its own unique key no other PS3/Bluray player has ?

 

And if Sony blacklisted your individual key from your PS3 they gona put it on a blacklist and your PS3 key will be pressed on every single  new released disc ? 

I never heard of that and I was truly surprised first.  I googled a bit but I found literally nothing about a person who was blacklisted by sony and cant play new bluray releases. Then I read the link. (I should have read the link first)

 

 

Indeed I understood the wikipedia article in a totally different way. I cant make the connection between:

 

 "The Advanced Access Content System (AACS) is a standard for content distribution and digital rights management. It was developed by AS Licensing Administrator, LLC (AACS LA), a consortium that includes DisneyIntelMicrosoftPanasonicWarner Bros.IBMToshiba, andSony.

Since appearing in devices in 2006, several successful attacks have been made on the format. The first known attack relied on the trusted clientproblem. In addition, decryption keys have been extracted from a weakly protected player (WinDVD). Since keys can be revoked in newer releases,[86] this is only a temporary attack, and new keys must continually be discovered in order to decrypt the latest discs. This cat-and-mouse game has gone through several cycles.

 "

 

And:

 

"Well its more or less if they blacklist your PS3's keys, it'll prevent you from playing any future BDs.. but whatever, you can still hug your otherOS."

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with the bluray player or the PS3 this has something to do with pirating bluray discs.

 

See those decryption keys are on the disc itself and in order to decrypt (and pirate) the disc you need those keys if you extract them you are able to copy the disc. They make new keys all the time and the pirates have to get them in order to copy the disc. This is the cat and mouse game There is no blacklist and your PS3 has not an individual Bluray key, so that Sony can put this single key on a blacklist and press it on all new bluray releases.  

 

 

To the CFW:

 

Sony made a mistake with the removal of Linux first because they will get in trouble atleast in some countries mainly EU and Australia. They probably hope nobody will sue them. In europe they would lose but the problem is it costs a lot to make lawsuite and it takes time and there is probably noone willing to sue Sony because of that. And Sony knows that.

 

I am not mad at them but I do understand if people are upset about it. You cant punish hundreds of thousend customers because someone said he hacked the PS3.

 

 

This "CFW" is not like an usual CFW. They havent deleted OOS Functionality yet they just disabled it. Geohot has switched it on again he has done it with using files of the old FW, this isnt a true CFW. Its not comparable to any CFW out there and can barely be called a CFW. Thats why he wrote my "custom firmware" and not my custom firmware.

 

If Sony takes out the whole functionality in the next FW everything is gone and we wont see a OOS FW a long time. Sony was playing it safe probably because they feared lawsuites so they wait some weeks or months too see peoples reactions, they will probably delete it completly nexttime if its not in the FW at all nobody can activate it. Unless you truly make a custom FW but thats a whole lot of work and will take some time maybe next year.

 

Thats why he said theoretically you could enable OOS on Slims too because they have also just the OtherOS switch on 

 

 

 

Sony has yet to blacklist anyone's PS3's key is strictly because PS3 hasn't been hacked to play bootlegged disc yet. In any case, I don't think you understand the technology to begin with. Blu-ray disc information are encrypted they need a decryption key to decrypt the information. 'Piraters' collect legit keys from players and use them to decrypt the blu-ray discs to watch and copy Region locked movies.  These keys that they collect can be 'revoked' such that they can no longer be used to read the disc anymore and that means the legit player that the pirate took the keys from can't be used watch new movies anymore.

Each PS3 have their own unique key stored in hardware. They use this key to decrypt the blu-ray discs. If the key gets revoked, that particular PS3 can't decrypt the new movies anymore because it got blacklisted. Here is an article about how a PS3 decrypts information http://www.vmecritical.com/articles/id/?2035

 

 

 

 

I have read your link. First ou give a link from wikipedia about the digital rights managment on blurays you quoted a sentence about AACS (which is used on DVDs also) and then to the security archtiecture of the cell ? What has the cell decryption key to do with "Advanced Access Content System".  I think they are talking about totally different keys then in the article about Cell security architecture. 

 

 

The AACS decryption process.

 

 

 

AACS

The Advanced Access Content System (AACS) is a standard for content distribution and digital rights management. It was developed by AS Licensing Administrator, LLC (AACS LA), a consortium that includes DisneyIntelMicrosoftPanasonicWarner Bros.IBMToshiba, andSony.

Since appearing in devices in 2006, several successful attacks have been made on the format. The first known attack relied on the trusted clientproblem. In addition, decryption keys have been extracted from a weakly protected player (WinDVD). Since keys can be revoked in newer releases,[86] this is only a temporary attack, and new keys must continually be discovered in order to decrypt the latest discs. This cat-and-mouse game has gone through several cycles.

 

+

 

The Cell Broadband Engine™ Vault Processor Security Architecture: Hardware security solutions

 

The unrelenting evolution toward an even more open and connected computing infrastructure requires robust security to thrive. Learn how the Cell Broadband Engine™ processor’s security architecture is uniquely suited for the challenges of this digital future.

 

= ? Sry I dont understand the connection. Your second article explained how the cell decrypts information. The first thing showed how the Digital rights managment works. But even in your second article wasnt a clue where stands that Sony can pick out a particular PS3 and put it on a blacklist,which is pressed on new bluray releases. Also the first thing has nothing to do with bluray only. How do you know that every cell has its unique key ? The Digital rights managment article and the cell article are talking imo about two different keys and not about the same thing.  

 

 

Where does it say in your link that sony can put a single bluray player/PS3 on a blacklist. Does every Device have its own key ? It would be a lot of work for Sony and why having millions of different keys ? Not just 34 Million PS3 keys but another tens of millions of keys of other bluray player ? You gave me informations about the cell security architecture. And as far as I know those keys are the same in all PS3 cell CPUs. There arent 34 Million different keys out there ? And if there arent 34 Million keys out there then Sony cant single out a certain PS3. 

 

If this is indeed true I apologize and I would be glad If I can have some other informations some article or something else where they explicitly mention those things. Its interesting to hear about. But in the moment it looks like you have made your own conclusions with the informations you got and I just cant see how you figured out it works that way. 

 

 

 

http://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/jhalderm/aacs-blacklisting-oracles-and-traitor-tracing

"Blacklisting would be a PR and business disaster if it meant a lot of consumers had to throw away their fancy players as a result of a crack. That’s why AACS allows each individual player to be assigned its own unique set of device keys that can be uniquely blacklisted without adversely affecting other players."

 

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/jhalderm/aacs-game-theory-blacklisting

Its not that hard to create 34 million keys... think of simplified example .. n%m = 0, if n is the encrypted content and m is the key, how many combination of n and m can you have that satisfy this cipher equation? Answer is infinite. Of course, in real life, encryption is done with chain-cipher-blocks which is harder to decrypt and the keys are hash generated which makes it harder to brute force.

Whether or not, Sony has done enough book keeping to keep a record of all device keys and their assoicated Ps3 is another issue, but it is definetly within the technology limit and their power to single out and blacklist specific PS3/blu-ray players.

I am not too certain what kind of information, you want. There are a lot of sites with articles regarding aacs blacklisting device keys. I found the one I just linked with google. Are you more interested in encryption information or DRM system?

 

Also, my second article about PS3 decryption is to prove to you that PS3 have their own decryption key since you previously thought that all decryption key was on the blu-ray disc opposed to being onthe system.



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Release the freakin' update already!!



zero129 said:

I could only imagine the law suits that would come if sony even tried to black list PS3's from playing Blu-ray movies or games,

after all thats what you got the system for, now what ever about them banning you from PSN they would have grounds to do that but if they ever stopped you from playing movies or games then that would be grounds to sue and id imagine alot of poeple would do just that and win...

Hell even MS will only ban you from live if your drive fw is flashed so the is no way would sony or any other company get away with doing that..

They can do it individually, so they probably have sufficent proof that your PS3 has been compromised with a CFW, which gives them the right to add your PS3's device key in future Blu-Ray blacklist.

Its similar to M$ blacklisting cracked CD keys and I don't think they got into any lawsuit for that.



zero129 said:
Wlakiz said:
zero129 said:

I could only imagine the law suits that would come if sony even tried to black list PS3's from playing Blu-ray movies or games,

after all thats what you got the system for, now what ever about them banning you from PSN they would have grounds to do that but if they ever stopped you from playing movies or games then that would be grounds to sue and id imagine alot of poeple would do just that and win...

Hell even MS will only ban you from live if your drive fw is flashed so the is no way would sony or any other company get away with doing that..

They can do it individually, so they probably have sufficent proof that your PS3 has been compromised with a CFW, which gives them the right to add your PS3's device key in future Blu-Ray blacklist.

Its similar to M$ blacklisting cracked CD keys and I don't think they got into any lawsuit for that.

Blacklisting an OS that you never payed for, and blacklisting a console that you did pay for is not the same thing.

the is no way sony would be able to do it without getting sued and trust me alot of people would sue if they did start doing this.

the worst thing they could do is just ban you from PSN anything else and they are taking away something you payed for.

I payed for my Ps3 to play games on how ever i see fit, if sony took that right away from me then that is grounds to sue.

Well.. I don't want to get into another heated debate about what they can or can't do.. but they already blacklisted cracked players on the market without any lawsuit shots fired. They have yet to blacklist any PS3 because it has yet to be cracked but if mr.geohot decides to go further, the consequence of people using his CFW could be having their PS3 blacklisted for FUTURE Blu-Ray movies/games. That is all I am going to say. It is up to you to decide if you want to go through with the risks.

 



Is it here yet?



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zero129 said:
Wlakiz said:
zero129 said:
Wlakiz said:
zero129 said:

I could only imagine the law suits that would come if sony even tried to black list PS3's from playing Blu-ray movies or games,

after all thats what you got the system for, now what ever about them banning you from PSN they would have grounds to do that but if they ever stopped you from playing movies or games then that would be grounds to sue and id imagine alot of poeple would do just that and win...

Hell even MS will only ban you from live if your drive fw is flashed so the is no way would sony or any other company get away with doing that..

They can do it individually, so they probably have sufficent proof that your PS3 has been compromised with a CFW, which gives them the right to add your PS3's device key in future Blu-Ray blacklist.

Its similar to M$ blacklisting cracked CD keys and I don't think they got into any lawsuit for that.

Blacklisting an OS that you never payed for, and blacklisting a console that you did pay for is not the same thing.

the is no way sony would be able to do it without getting sued and trust me alot of people would sue if they did start doing this.

the worst thing they could do is just ban you from PSN anything else and they are taking away something you payed for.

I payed for my Ps3 to play games on how ever i see fit, if sony took that right away from me then that is grounds to sue.

Well.. I don't want to get into another heated debate about what they can or can't do.. but they already blacklisted cracked players on the market without any lawsuit shots fired. They have yet to blacklist any PS3 because it has yet to be cracked but if mr.geohot decides to go further, the consequence of people using his CFW could be having their PS3 blacklisted for FUTURE Blu-Ray movies/games. That is all I am going to say. It is up to you to decide if you want to go through with the risks.

 

 

By players do you mean software players for pc? or real blu ray players?..

And like i said even MS cant stop your console from playing games with hacked firmware.

Lets just see here say little johnny got his ps3 cracked to play copied software, but yet he still went and payed for games and blu ray movies etc,

Now one day he comes home with a bunch of new games or blu ray movies that he just payed for.

pops it into his ps3 only to find that they wont play, now multiply that one little johnny to 1000's of little johnnys that has just found their ps3 has become a big expensive paper wight..

You honestly think that sony wouldn't be sued and once they where do you really think that sony would win..?

Like i said with ms blacklisting cd keys thats for software that you didn't own in the first place so you would have no grounds to sue as you never payed anything for it.

same with them black listing cracked players you didn't pay for them in the first place, its not the same thing..

I haven't done much research but from what I know, both 'real blu ray players' and software's keys have been blacklisted.

 

Well Big Daddy Sony, sold lil Johnny a key card to a shared storage room and says: "Here, lil, Johnny, Heres the key card to the storage room. The key card will only allow you to take what you own, you can't take things that don't belong to you"

Lil, Johnny goes and modifies his keycard so he can get access to everyone elses storage.

Big Daddy Sony, gets report that things are being stolen, he checks the log and found that some key cards have been modified and was able to access things that they shouldn't. Big daddy Sony, goes to the card reader and fixed it so it will reject all modifed key cards.

Do you honestly think lil Johnny has the right to complain that his key card got rejected?

CFW, allow you to access things that you don't own and having those access put you on the suspcion list when things get stolen. Can you blame Sony for rejecting your access? You can get your stuff out of the storage but you'll have to buy another key card.

 



-Sony provides Linux option so those prone to hacking, have a legit means to run custom code on the PS3 via Linux = all Is good for the Sony and weekend programers.

-Geohot for some unknown reason wants to crack the PS3, which inevitably will result in pirated games, as has always been the case in the past, Geohot has no reason to try hack the PS3 as he could already run customer code via Linux the legit way.

-Sony responds to Geohot threat, and like Any company, Sony implemented a way of protecting their machine, it unfortunately meant the removal of the Other OS feature IF the user upgraded the FW to the latest one, it wasn't mandatory so the option was upto the user.

-PS3 Linux users get angry at Sony, while backing up Geohot.

-In reality PS3 Linux users should be angry with Geohot, if it weren't for his actions none of this would of happened, and the Others OS feature would have remained untouched.



The question to ask is not if Sony did the wrong thing, but rather to Ask if what Geohot did was right?

In reality anyone Backing Geohot is backing Piracy!!!

We as consumer who buy legit software are the one suffering with nasty DRM solutions, we're the ones having our features removed because of potential threats, all at the hands of pirates.

If it were not for pirates, their would be no real need for DRM, no need to remove features such as the Other OS on the PS3 as the threat would not be there in the 1st place to warrant such drastic reactions from Companies.

At the end of the day, the more Geohot and people like him try to fight the companies, the more we as consumers will suffer as a direct result of pirates.



zero129 said:
jake_the_fake1 said:

-Sony provides Linux option so those prone to hacking, have a legit means to run custom code on the PS3 via Linux = all Is good for the Sony and weekend programers.

-Geohot for some unknown reason wants to crack the PS3, which inevitably will result in pirated games, as has always been the case in the past, Geohot has no reason to try hack the PS3 as he could already run customer code via Linux the legit way.

-Sony responds to Geohot threat, and like Any company, Sony implemented a way of protecting their machine, it unfortunately meant the removal of the Other OS feature IF the user upgraded the FW to the latest one, it wasn't mandatory so the option was upto the user.

-PS3 Linux users get angry at Sony, while backing up Geohot.

-In reality PS3 Linux users should be angry with Geohot, if it weren't for his actions none of this would of happened, and the Others OS feature would have remained untouched.



The question to ask is not if Sony did the wrong thing, but rather to Ask if what Geohot did was right?

In reality anyone Backing Geohot is backing Piracy!!!

We as consumer who buy legit software are the one suffering with nasty DRM solutions, we're the ones having our features removed because of potential threats, all at the hands of pirates.

If it were not for pirates, their would be no real need for DRM, no need to remove features such as the Other OS on the PS3 as the threat would not be there in the 1st place to warrant such drastic reactions from Companies.

At the end of the day, the more Geohot and people like him try to fight the companies, the more we as consumers will suffer as a direct result of pirates.

 

Ok so if sony was planing on keeping Other Os why didn't they include it in the slim..?

companys know any DRM they release will be cracked its always been the case so then why do they keep including it when they know its never going to work?.

Companys know DRM is not the solution its meanly a problem why some people turn to piracy for some games in the first place, Take assasins cread 2 for insteance now fully cracked and you dont need to be connected to the net to play the game.

Not only that the crack fixes a problem some legit buyers had with settings and stuff being messed up, thats right a crack by them so called hackers fixes a problem that should of been fixed by the company in the first place..

To save money, If I remember correctly it was some sort of a timing chip needed for some common kernal instruction set,  dont quote me on that though.

 

The only thing lacking on linux for PS3 was GPU access, and not just frame buffer access but real 3d acceleration through drivers, If Geo had focused on hacking the HV to allow 3d acceleration I would bet any money that,

1)Sony would have turned a blind eye

2)People who use linux for legit reasons would have rejoiced, instead of having it removed.

 

Thought this thread of butthurt had died days ago though?



jake_the_fake1 said:

-Sony provides Linux option so those prone to hacking, have a legit means to run custom code on the PS3 via Linux = all Is good for the Sony and weekend programers.

-Geohot for some unknown reason wants to crack the PS3, which inevitably will result in pirated games, as has always been the case in the past, Geohot has no reason to try hack the PS3 as he could already run customer code via Linux the legit way.

-Sony responds to Geohot threat, and like Any company, Sony implemented a way of protecting their machine, it unfortunately meant the removal of the Other OS feature IF the user upgraded the FW to the latest one, it wasn't mandatory so the option was upto the user.

-PS3 Linux users get angry at Sony, while backing up Geohot.

-In reality PS3 Linux users should be angry with Geohot, if it weren't for his actions none of this would of happened, and the Others OS feature would have remained untouched.



The question to ask is not if Sony did the wrong thing, but rather to Ask if what Geohot did was right?

In reality anyone Backing Geohot is backing Piracy!!!

We as consumer who buy legit software are the one suffering with nasty DRM solutions, we're the ones having our features removed because of potential threats, all at the hands of pirates.

If it were not for pirates, their would be no real need for DRM, no need to remove features such as the Other OS on the PS3 as the threat would not be there in the 1st place to warrant such drastic reactions from Companies.

At the end of the day, the more Geohot and people like him try to fight the companies, the more we as consumers will suffer as a direct result of pirates.

Geohot did not hack the PS3 for piracy, stop spreading FUD please.  Other OS in standard form is still restricted access, the ability to have full access to all the SPE's and the GPU would open up some interesting possibilities from a emulation/mediaplayer point of view.  Not everything is about piracy in the hacking world, although there is a possibility that it would open a door for the pirates to launch their attacks on the system.

Whether this would have made piracy possible or not is irrelevant though it still doesn't change the fact Sony just dumped over millions of consumers rights and you people are still claiming thats a good thing.  How about you stop telling everyone else that they shouldn't be concerned about protecting their rights and just let these threads die.



Doesnt the latest revision of YDL have 6 out of a possible 8 SPU accessable already?

@ zero I doubt Sony had every intention of removing OOS from fats from the get go... it doesnt make sense