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Forums - Microsoft - Project Natal: New Build Impressive =)

Holesome on 12 April 2010
CommonMan said:
flowjo said:
rts genre is going to be extremely difficult for natal unless its very simplified, a game like starcraft isnt just point and click its a ton of button mapping and micro managing , just look at the simple design of a mouse , yet the most basic pc mouse these days still has three buttons which are used very fluently in the rts genre.

i dont think you guys really thought it through yet , go play starcraft then show me how your going to do it with 2 hands

I don't want to get into this too much, because it can be hard to explain in a forum. Your hand is tracked on screen like the finger in Diablo, the screen can have as may customizable virtual buttons on it that you want. When you want to activate it, you move the "finger" over, by moving your hand over, and do some motion to activate them. I like having an open hand for when your just moving, and closing your hand to "activate" or "click" on something, although I'm sure some genius developer could think of something way better. This same way you could hover your hand over the unit you want to move, and "drag" a shadow of that unit to another place, creating a path for the unit to follow. I don't actually see any problems with this.

So Natal could be used as a large air-touch screen?  On top of that you can layer on voice commands and perhaps custom user assigned voice commands.

 



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CommonMan on 12 April 2010
flowjo said:
CommonMan said:
flowjo said:
rts genre is going to be extremely difficult for natal unless its very simplified, a game like starcraft isnt just point and click its a ton of button mapping and micro managing , just look at the simple design of a mouse , yet the most basic pc mouse these days still has three buttons which are used very fluently in the rts genre.

i dont think you guys really thought it through yet , go play starcraft then show me how your going to do it with 2 hands

I don't want to get into this too much, because it can be hard to explain in a forum. Your hand is tracked on screen like the finger in Diablo, the screen can have as may customizable virtual buttons on it that you want. When you want to activate it, you move the "finger" over, by moving your hand over, and do some motion to activate them. I like having an open hand for when your just moving, and closing your hand to "activate" or "click" on something, although I'm sure some genius developer could think of something way better. This same way you could hover your hand over the unit you want to move, and "drag" a shadow of that unit to another place, creating a path for the unit to follow. I don't actually see any problems with this.

 

thats exactly how sonys move will work with these genres i realize this lol but what you have to remember is natal has no buttons so how are you going to "click" that button without disturbing your movement on the screen? and what about when your moving over other on screen buttons that you dont want to press? is your hand or arm able to play an rts game for a couple hours holding it out for that long?

and like i said what about the button mapping in these games , i dont think you have a lot of experience with rts games lol

I bolded the parts of my post that already answered most of your questions. As far as arm fatigue goes, well, first of all you don't have to hold your arm up the whole time obviously, but you could have Natal track where your hands are on a flat surface, like a table, the floor (or for me my giant ottoman in my living room) and you move the units around that way.

I don't want to attack you as I may just not be explaining myself very well, but it seems like you didn't really read my post.



No one in the world ever gets what they want, and that is beautiful.

Lord Flashheart on 12 April 2010
flowjo said:
CommonMan said:
flowjo said:
rts genre is going to be extremely difficult for natal unless its very simplified, a game like starcraft isnt just point and click its a ton of button mapping and micro managing , just look at the simple design of a mouse , yet the most basic pc mouse these days still has three buttons which are used very fluently in the rts genre.

i dont think you guys really thought it through yet , go play starcraft then show me how your going to do it with 2 hands

I don't want to get into this too much, because it can be hard to explain in a forum. Your hand is tracked on screen like the finger in Diablo, the screen can have as may customizable virtual buttons on it that you want. When you want to activate it, you move the "finger" over, by moving your hand over, and do some motion to activate them. I like having an open hand for when your just moving, and closing your hand to "activate" or "click" on something, although I'm sure some genius developer could think of something way better. This same way you could hover your hand over the unit you want to move, and "drag" a shadow of that unit to another place, creating a path for the unit to follow. I don't actually see any problems with this.

 

thats exactly how sonys move will work with these genres i realize this lol but what you have to remember is natal has no buttons so how are you going to "click" that button without disturbing your movement on the screen? and what about when your moving over other on screen buttons that you dont want to press? is your hand or arm able to play an rts game for a couple hours holding it out for that long?

and like i said what about the button mapping in these games , i dont think you have a lot of experience with rts games lol

Groin thrust.



Official member of the Xbox 360 Squad

flowjo on 12 April 2010

lol maybe the males can use their member for added natal help



RaY_Z on 12 April 2010
eggs2see said:
tuscaniman said:
flowjo said:
huaxiong90 said:
flowjo said:
lol ill believe it when i see it, either way the games wont be catering to the hardcore so im definitely passing on natal and going for move , im a really big fan of the wiimote and nunchuk and it works amazing on a old piece of tech like nintendo can only imagine the games well see on ps3.

microsoft has really tried for risky and it wont pay off cause in the end the people that play 360 are hardcore gamers bad move really

Microsoft isn't aiming for the hardcore. They're broadening their audience.

 

i dont see how its really broadening anything but catering to a very casual party oriented audience, at least with the move and wii you can incorporate both parties so essentially microsoft is jumping into a very small already tapped market.

in the end its going to be about the software , while wii and move will have all similar titles making for an even more broad range of games , natal will be very discrete and focused losing potential games and audience that is already established with proven motion controls.

dont think for a second natal will ever release a fresh hardcore experience without the functionality of physical buttons, but expect sony to cater to both with their tech

so in reality sony is making the best( proven) hardware suited for hardcore and casual , now thats a smart decision, strictly focusing on one market when you have the money and potential to capture all audiences is not a smart decision.

How is Move more "hardcore" than Natal?

I'm assuming it is because of the bright glowing ball on top of the controller.

LOL... Yep, the dildo definitely makes it more hardcore than Natal.



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Shorty11857 on 12 April 2010
flowjo said:
CommonMan said:
flowjo said:
rts genre is going to be extremely difficult for natal unless its very simplified, a game like starcraft isnt just point and click its a ton of button mapping and micro managing , just look at the simple design of a mouse , yet the most basic pc mouse these days still has three buttons which are used very fluently in the rts genre.

i dont think you guys really thought it through yet , go play starcraft then show me how your going to do it with 2 hands

I don't want to get into this too much, because it can be hard to explain in a forum. Your hand is tracked on screen like the finger in Diablo, the screen can have as may customizable virtual buttons on it that you want. When you want to activate it, you move the "finger" over, by moving your hand over, and do some motion to activate them. I like having an open hand for when your just moving, and closing your hand to "activate" or "click" on something, although I'm sure some genius developer could think of something way better. This same way you could hover your hand over the unit you want to move, and "drag" a shadow of that unit to another place, creating a path for the unit to follow. I don't actually see any problems with this.

 

thats exactly how sonys move will work with these genres i realize this lol but what you have to remember is natal has no buttons so how are you going to "click" that button without disturbing your movement on the screen? and what about when your moving over other on screen buttons that you dont want to press? is your hand or arm able to play an rts game for a couple hours holding it out for that long?

and like i said what about the button mapping in these games , i dont think you have a lot of experience with rts games lol

Right Hand - Point one finger for that to be your cursor, open your hand and move it to essentially drag a box around units, Close your fist or move your hand forward to select

Left Hand - Control map

Voice Commands for hot keys

And you can't really complain about holding your hands up because you'd have to do the same thing with Move, it might not be a perfect control scheme but it seems workable



BillyBOBMahog on 12 April 2010

Remember, there is depth information to go along with hand position. A button press could be the hand moving a defined distance forward.



flowjo on 12 April 2010

naa with wii mote and nunchuk i can literally chill back and my hands never get tired and i have buttons to press , i think the only people trying to defend rts on natal are the blind fanboys lol.

natal wont have shooters or rts games lets get real folks unless they are entirely built and simplified for natal , hmmm so starcraft 2 or natals possible "gimped" rts ??

i know some of you will get mad but its the truth , natal inst going to see any true hardcore titles, and im pretty sure there was an article on here saying that natal wont be used for these purposes anyways



CommonMan on 12 April 2010
flowjo said:
naa with wii mote and nunchuk i can literally chill back and my hands never get tired and i have buttons to press , i think the only people trying to defend rts on natal are the blind fanboys lol.

natal wont have shooters or rts games lets get real folks unless they are entirely built and simplified for natal , hmmm so starcraft 2 or natals possible "gimped" rts ??

i know some of you will get mad but its the truth , natal inst going to see any true hardcore titles, and im pretty sure there was an article on here saying that natal wont be used for these purposes anyways

Well, I tried discussing this with you, but now you've just gone and called the people that disagree with you "blind fanboys", you do realize that is going too far right?



No one in the world ever gets what they want, and that is beautiful.

flowjo on 12 April 2010

but a horror adventure game would work really well and simple point click stuff can work to