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Forums - Sony - Sony says sorry for other os take down

jneul on 09 April 2010

I need sleep I think, too much vgc for one day.



it's the future of handheld

PS VITA = LIFE

The official Vita thread http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=130023&page=1

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Kasz216 on 09 April 2010
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
huh I am chilled, lol, I am backing up Sony here they said sorry and explained it is for the greater good, I thought it would be better if a sony fan posted this instead of just a random person, lol

So all it takes is for someone to claim something "is for the greater good" and your fine with it.  Nevermind Sony said it was for security reasons only.

They've never once actually mentioned piracy to my knowledge.  So, how is this for the greater good for removing it because of security issues... that the majority won't ever expierence because they won't even use it?

Not to mention... security problems with Linux on the cell?  Is there even a MORE obscure thing to design a security exploit for?  If they don't bother with Apple why would they bother with this?

Unfortuantely I know so much more about this than you think, GeoHotz went to alot of trouble just to get this far, after thinking about it really it would not surprise me how much futher hackers would be willing to go, do not under-estimate them

I do not just believe Sony, I know alot of things, unfortunately, I am a programmer I can program in c#, c++, Java, Visual Basic and Assembly language, I could develop some nasty applications if I put my mind to it, but I am not like that.

Believe sony... about what?  Once again, this security issue doesn't effect ANYBODY who doesn't have other OS installed?  Yes?

So... uh... what's your greater good? 

Stopping the phat PS3's from pirating?  That's not the greater good... that's Sony having left a door wide open that they should of known would of been a probelm when they were designing it.  Period.

They didn't they put it in.  I feel sorry for Sony, but it's wrong of them to remove a feature they sold the product with.

right you do know developing HD games cost a lot of money, it is hard for a deveoper to make a profit in recent times, hence the reason why alot of them are going multi, now stop being silly please, this is for the greater good, piracy is bad.

Finally if you enable piracy on the ps3 via custom firmware I am betting you will have to overide it's security features, this will leave the door open to attacks such as stealing personal information, I am sorry but I think you are living in pixie land if you think people will not try and take advantage of newer abilities on PS3

People don't bother on Linux or Apple... why woud they bother on PS3... also... if pirates get their information stolen by hackers, fuck them they're pirates.

As for the "HD games cost a lot of money"  Sony should of thought of that before they put other OS in to begin with... not to mention there aren't THAT many phat PS3's out there where it should make a difference.  Let alone phat PS3's belonging to people who are going to want to pirate.

People who pirate a lot tend to not buy a system until the way to pirate has been created since you know... they don't want to pay for games.

 

The end result would be a small amount of hackers buying up old PS3s.  Hardly catastrophic... and even if it was... it's Sony's fault to begin with.

yeah right, that's so right George Hotz didn't bother with PS3, it wasn't really hacked, it's all Sony's fault / sarcasm

you are contradicting yourself because you are mad at Sony, it's funny how everyone is jumping on the hate wagon now the feature is gone, this reminds me of BC compatibility back in 2007, all of them hypocrites, never bought a ps3 with BC then when sony removed it to make it cheaper, so you all could afford it, the irony :(:(

Did George Hotz hack the PS3 so it downloads viruses on other peoples PS3s?  Because if not... this doesn't "help the majority of playstation owners".

Sony's conetention was that this caused security issues for the majority of people.  Which you know... it doesn't.

Only those who download other OS in the first place... and who WANT the feature there.

 

Sony removed the feature for one reason it was good for SONY.  They took a feature away from people who use it, that people paid for, soley for their own bottom line.

That's reprehensible.

so you think it's wrong to protect people who may want to have custom firmware from things like viruses and spyware etc as well?? Anyway any pirates should be banned, if you want to keep other os it is optional, seriously you have spun this way out of context if you are that bothered about linux either do the following:

A. get a cheap pc that runs linux

B. keep other os and buy a ps3 slim(if you are bothered about gaming as well).

I am sure if you get some money back it will help you out either way. I admit it is not the fairest solution, but seriously, I do understand why they are doing this!!

Yes. 

Also, no... I haven't spun anything out of context.  The context is clear.  It's just one you don't want to look at.

To protect their bottom like... IE money.  Sony is inconviencing innocent people.  That's it... and it's reprehnsible.

 

The fairest solution is to keep other OS in, and deal with hackers at a "catch them" basis.  Like Microsoft does.  It should be the only acceptable solution.

Also the removal of other OS doesn't bother me.  The people DEFENDING the removal of other OS from people who already bought the system and the screwing of consumers bugs me.

This should be an arguement between Sony and people Sony screwed, but instead people like you are defending the screwing of innocent people.  This bothers me... a lot.

It would be like someone defending insurance companies dropping people who honestly make mistakes in procedure just to stop a few people who scam the system.

 



Kasz216 on 09 April 2010
joeorc said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:

It was in the best intrests of the majority to remove a feature the majority never used and therefore were never at risk of anything... by screwing over a minority of people who used this and who are the only people effected.

Yeah... ok Sony.

People who think Sony doing this is a positve need a major reality check.

Hell this isn't even going to slow down piracy, if anything it will probably lead to a piracy solution quicker because Sony decided to anatagonize people who use Linux on the PS3... aka hackers... and also basically threw down a gauntlet to a bunch of other people.

Hardly matters.

First, there are no PS3s being produced that run Linux.

Second, the vast majority of owners who have an older PS3 will simply update the firmware with no regard for the loss of Linux as they, like the vast majority of PS3 owners, had no intention of ever installing Linux.

Add to these the older PS3s that are no longer working.

Ultimately, you're left with a shrinking number of consoles that are capable of having a hardware hack installed on an older console that can run Linux.

Net result: it makes a slightly larger niche market for old PS3s among the small community of users determined to play pirated games.

When found, this solution does nothing for the vast majority of PS3 owners who don't have an older PS3, aren't running Linux, don't have the hardware modifications made to their console and of course the simplest part of playing pirated games: don't have a PC with a BD burner and a stack of BD media.

You're left with a pretty insignificant number of potential pirates who have to leap through quite a few hoops just to play pirated games.

So someone gets a working solution to play pirated games on a software and hardware hacked PS3. Congrats. Really; congrats. It will have taken almost four years. The only benefit for the general public wlll be the inevitable Youtube videos displaying the achievement since it won't help all but a tiny niche of people who are very dedicated to playing pirated games.

SCE isn't concerned with this tiny niche of people that will go through more trouble than it's worth simply because they can.

They're concerned with general piracy among regular consumers who wouldn't have to do anything more than pay their local hardware hacker $50 to install a mod chip and supply them with $10 burned games.

Actually no.  I mean people will work to find a way to hack the actual PS3.  Or even find a way to reset and/or customize the firmware like PSP.


So instead of only old phat systems being able to pirate for the small amount of people who want to find an old PS3 to pirate... they open it up to where every PS3 may end up being pirateable.

Other OS was actually a good diversion to keep the hackers on.

As soon as it happens, and we see current production PS3s running pirated games, feel free to make a thread about it.

By the time we see a $50 mod chip and $10 BD burned games, the PS3 will be in its twilight years.

I'm not holding my breath and neither should you.

Couldn't I say the same to you?  Afterall there is NOT an actual hack that lets you play PS3 games via Other OS yet.

Which in of itself doesn't get around the fact that Sony is taking a feature away from the innocent that was already paid for, simply because someone else may abuse it.

No, because I'm not waiting for a hardware or software hack for the PS3. I buy games.

Even though I have a 60GB BC SKU running 3.20 firmware that I don't need to update because it's not my only PS3. If I want to use that to run Linux for whatever reason, I can.

i can fully agree with that situation ,while i also have multiple PS3's i know if i wanted to keep linux on my 60gb or 40 GB i can, i stll have my Slim for game's

some people may say i should not have to buy a second PS3 for a function I already paid good money for, on the same token I should not have to deal with hacker's making a system less secure because they felt the security and encryption should be open to everyone!

 

I agree with both of those.  Both sony and the hackers are wrong.


I'm guessing you didn't understand that article you posted though?  It wasn't about people hacking into other peoples PS3s.

It was about people using PS3s to hack into regular computers... because of the PS3's processing power and great number crunching.



loy310 on 09 April 2010

Sony did the right thing, and I'm sure it must have pissed Sony off that they had to remove other OS. The security compromises that the other OS created could have caused people to lose their credit card info or personal info.
I really don't know why people praise hackers, but the damage they cause all over the world should not be tolerated on any level, losing your identity of having a credit card zapped is f'ed up, guys like geohot could not careless.



joeorc on 09 April 2010
Kasz216 said:
joeorc said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:

It was in the best intrests of the majority to remove a feature the majority never used and therefore were never at risk of anything... by screwing over a minority of people who used this and who are the only people effected.

Yeah... ok Sony.

People who think Sony doing this is a positve need a major reality check.

Hell this isn't even going to slow down piracy, if anything it will probably lead to a piracy solution quicker because Sony decided to anatagonize people who use Linux on the PS3... aka hackers... and also basically threw down a gauntlet to a bunch of other people.

Hardly matters.

First, there are no PS3s being produced that run Linux.

Second, the vast majority of owners who have an older PS3 will simply update the firmware with no regard for the loss of Linux as they, like the vast majority of PS3 owners, had no intention of ever installing Linux.

Add to these the older PS3s that are no longer working.

Ultimately, you're left with a shrinking number of consoles that are capable of having a hardware hack installed on an older console that can run Linux.

Net result: it makes a slightly larger niche market for old PS3s among the small community of users determined to play pirated games.

When found, this solution does nothing for the vast majority of PS3 owners who don't have an older PS3, aren't running Linux, don't have the hardware modifications made to their console and of course the simplest part of playing pirated games: don't have a PC with a BD burner and a stack of BD media.

You're left with a pretty insignificant number of potential pirates who have to leap through quite a few hoops just to play pirated games.

So someone gets a working solution to play pirated games on a software and hardware hacked PS3. Congrats. Really; congrats. It will have taken almost four years. The only benefit for the general public wlll be the inevitable Youtube videos displaying the achievement since it won't help all but a tiny niche of people who are very dedicated to playing pirated games.

SCE isn't concerned with this tiny niche of people that will go through more trouble than it's worth simply because they can.

They're concerned with general piracy among regular consumers who wouldn't have to do anything more than pay their local hardware hacker $50 to install a mod chip and supply them with $10 burned games.

Actually no.  I mean people will work to find a way to hack the actual PS3.  Or even find a way to reset and/or customize the firmware like PSP.


So instead of only old phat systems being able to pirate for the small amount of people who want to find an old PS3 to pirate... they open it up to where every PS3 may end up being pirateable.

Other OS was actually a good diversion to keep the hackers on.

As soon as it happens, and we see current production PS3s running pirated games, feel free to make a thread about it.

By the time we see a $50 mod chip and $10 BD burned games, the PS3 will be in its twilight years.

I'm not holding my breath and neither should you.

Couldn't I say the same to you?  Afterall there is NOT an actual hack that lets you play PS3 games via Other OS yet.

Which in of itself doesn't get around the fact that Sony is taking a feature away from the innocent that was already paid for, simply because someone else may abuse it.

No, because I'm not waiting for a hardware or software hack for the PS3. I buy games.

Even though I have a 60GB BC SKU running 3.20 firmware that I don't need to update because it's not my only PS3. If I want to use that to run Linux for whatever reason, I can.

i can fully agree with that situation ,while i also have multiple PS3's i know if i wanted to keep linux on my 60gb or 40 GB i can, i stll have my Slim for game's

some people may say i should not have to buy a second PS3 for a function I already paid good money for, on the same token I should not have to deal with hacker's making a system less secure because they felt the security and encryption should be open to everyone!

 

I agree with both of those.  Both sony and the hackers are wrong.


I'm guessing you didn't understand that article you posted though?  It wasn't about people hacking into other peoples PS3s.

It was about people using PS3s to hack into regular computers... because of the PS3's processing power and great number crunching.

no i understood it completly.

way to twist what i post this could infact be used to do the same on other people's PS3's

like i said this is just not about PSN only and it does not have to be.

it was about hacking even salted encryption to gather credit card info using a PS3. for example you used to be able to use a flash drive to load a BD-java application on it that allowed you to run nintendo game rom's on the PS3. sony removed the ability to use that flash card ability to use it for that.

this is also why sony is going that route.

the curreent Other OS that the PS3 only support's is Linux, if Sony did not do anything to prevent the use of the PS3 being used in this manner when they know it could with Linux installed, Now that Geohot has opened other PS3's security in some fashion, this could be used to hack other PS3's remotely better due to this hack.

where is quite a number of PS3's at anyone time on PSN

it's about what would a prudent man do in a situation:

example:

 

prudent-man rule

standard adopted by some U.S. states to guide those with responsibility for investing the money of others. Such fiduciaries (executors of wills, trustees, bank trust departments, and administrators of estates) must act as a prudent man or woman would be expected to act, with discretion and intelligence, to seek reasonable income, preserve capital, and, in general, avoid speculative investments. States not using the prudent-man system use the legal list system, allowing fiduciaries to invest only in a restricted list of securities, called the legal list.

since Geohot's hack is a Vector in:

he even admits his hack can lead to pirated software. the question what else can it lead too?

this is from one of the hacker's that Geohot talk's to on a board:

As ppl have said, Sony did not include support for installing linux (OtherOS) onto slim PS3s. This exploit requires software running on the PS3 which is what linux is used for.

once again what would a

prudent man do?

 

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

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hollywood85 on 09 April 2010
Huya said:
O_o why can't ppl just chill about this?~~

because it's 2007................oh wait, but yeah, some people's brains haven't left the 360's glory days.



hollywood85 on 09 April 2010
dsister44 said:
Plus 10 respect!

This is all I really wanted. It shouldn't have taken them this long to issue it though.

*Continues not updating PS3*.................... that I never played in the first place.

*fixed*



Kasz216 on 09 April 2010
joeorc said:
Kasz216 said:
joeorc said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:

It was in the best intrests of the majority to remove a feature the majority never used and therefore were never at risk of anything... by screwing over a minority of people who used this and who are the only people effected.

Yeah... ok Sony.

People who think Sony doing this is a positve need a major reality check.

Hell this isn't even going to slow down piracy, if anything it will probably lead to a piracy solution quicker because Sony decided to anatagonize people who use Linux on the PS3... aka hackers... and also basically threw down a gauntlet to a bunch of other people.

Hardly matters.

First, there are no PS3s being produced that run Linux.

Second, the vast majority of owners who have an older PS3 will simply update the firmware with no regard for the loss of Linux as they, like the vast majority of PS3 owners, had no intention of ever installing Linux.

Add to these the older PS3s that are no longer working.

Ultimately, you're left with a shrinking number of consoles that are capable of having a hardware hack installed on an older console that can run Linux.

Net result: it makes a slightly larger niche market for old PS3s among the small community of users determined to play pirated games.

When found, this solution does nothing for the vast majority of PS3 owners who don't have an older PS3, aren't running Linux, don't have the hardware modifications made to their console and of course the simplest part of playing pirated games: don't have a PC with a BD burner and a stack of BD media.

You're left with a pretty insignificant number of potential pirates who have to leap through quite a few hoops just to play pirated games.

So someone gets a working solution to play pirated games on a software and hardware hacked PS3. Congrats. Really; congrats. It will have taken almost four years. The only benefit for the general public wlll be the inevitable Youtube videos displaying the achievement since it won't help all but a tiny niche of people who are very dedicated to playing pirated games.

SCE isn't concerned with this tiny niche of people that will go through more trouble than it's worth simply because they can.

They're concerned with general piracy among regular consumers who wouldn't have to do anything more than pay their local hardware hacker $50 to install a mod chip and supply them with $10 burned games.

Actually no.  I mean people will work to find a way to hack the actual PS3.  Or even find a way to reset and/or customize the firmware like PSP.


So instead of only old phat systems being able to pirate for the small amount of people who want to find an old PS3 to pirate... they open it up to where every PS3 may end up being pirateable.

Other OS was actually a good diversion to keep the hackers on.

As soon as it happens, and we see current production PS3s running pirated games, feel free to make a thread about it.

By the time we see a $50 mod chip and $10 BD burned games, the PS3 will be in its twilight years.

I'm not holding my breath and neither should you.

Couldn't I say the same to you?  Afterall there is NOT an actual hack that lets you play PS3 games via Other OS yet.

Which in of itself doesn't get around the fact that Sony is taking a feature away from the innocent that was already paid for, simply because someone else may abuse it.

No, because I'm not waiting for a hardware or software hack for the PS3. I buy games.

Even though I have a 60GB BC SKU running 3.20 firmware that I don't need to update because it's not my only PS3. If I want to use that to run Linux for whatever reason, I can.

i can fully agree with that situation ,while i also have multiple PS3's i know if i wanted to keep linux on my 60gb or 40 GB i can, i stll have my Slim for game's

some people may say i should not have to buy a second PS3 for a function I already paid good money for, on the same token I should not have to deal with hacker's making a system less secure because they felt the security and encryption should be open to everyone!

 

I agree with both of those.  Both sony and the hackers are wrong.


I'm guessing you didn't understand that article you posted though?  It wasn't about people hacking into other peoples PS3s.

It was about people using PS3s to hack into regular computers... because of the PS3's processing power and great number crunching.

no i understood it completly.

way to twist what i post this could infact be used to do the same on other people's PS3's

like i said this is just not about PSN only and it does not have to be.

it was about hacking even salted encryption to gather credit card info using a PS3. for example you used to be able to use a flash drive to load a BD-java application on it that allowed you to run nintendo game rom's on the PS3. sony removed the ability to use that flash card ability to use it for that.

this is also why sony is going that route.

the curreent Other OS that the PS3 only support's is Linux, if Sony did not do anything to prevent the use of the PS3 being used in this manner when they know it could with Linux installed, Now that Geohot has opened other PS3's security in some fashion, this could be used to hack other PS3's remotely better due to this hack.

where is quite a number of PS3's at anyone time on PSN

it's about what would a prudent man do in a situation:

example:

 

prudent-man rule

standard adopted by some U.S. states to guide those with responsibility for investing the money of others. Such fiduciaries (executors of wills, trustees, bank trust departments, and administrators of estates) must act as a prudent man or woman would be expected to act, with discretion and intelligence, to seek reasonable income, preserve capital, and, in general, avoid speculative investments. States not using the prudent-man system use the legal list system, allowing fiduciaries to invest only in a restricted list of securities, called the legal list.

since Geohot's hack is a Vector in:

he even admits his hack can lead to pirated software. the question what else can it lead too?

this is from one of the hacker's that Geohot talk's to on a board:

As ppl have said, Sony did not include support for installing linux (OtherOS) onto slim PS3s. This exploit requires software running on the PS3 which is what linux is used for.

once again what would a

prudent man do?

 

 

None of that actually is relevent.  If it can be done on a PS3 it can be done on anything.  As has been stated, PS3 is actually pretty bad as a linux machine.  This stops nothing, heck if people care that much to steal peoples credit card information, they can simply remove the cell and put it elsewhere.

Nothing is being fixed or changed by this... at all. 



dsister44 on 09 April 2010
hollywood85 said:
dsister44 said:
Plus 10 respect!

This is all I really wanted. It shouldn't have taken them this long to issue it though.

*Continues not updating PS3*.................... that I never played in the first place.

*fixed*

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=79706 :P



slowmo on 10 April 2010
ultima said:
slowmo said:
Once again people post ignorantly completely missing the point of why this was such a bad thing to happen. If you don't care about this issue thats fine but stop downplaying this issue for those who do care. The people running damage control are causing this issue to go on and on because of their poor attitude.

What do you use it for anyway? You keep saying it's a big deal; I personally tried it out, but got rid of it in about a month. Not only is it super slow, but it's a pain to get everything working. Any computer nowadays would outperform PS3's linux.

 

To be honest it is indeed slow and its practicality has never been great (not many apps are written for PPC's obviously) but I cannot in good consience support any companies decision to shaft the consumer and blatantly breach their rights in order to look after themselves.  If you think its fine for Sony to remove features that you paid for then thats fair enough, personally I think you're all stark raving bonkers putting some misguided concept of loyalty ahead of your rights as a consumer.