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Forums - Sony - Sony's OtherOS removal defeated...

scottie on 08 April 2010
steverhcp02 said:
scottie said:
I have to admit, I love watching fights between hackers and companies.

I don't take sides - I admit that some hackers want to bring in cool new features that don't harm Sony, and that some want to pirate games - I'll defend the first whilst simultaneously defending Sony's right to stop the later.

I think I like it cos it's either a david and goliath story, as in this case where the few take on the many (and usually win) or if enough people get behind it, it's an allegory for socialist revolution - power to the people and the means of production being transfered from the bourgeoisie to the proletariat.

Ubisoft's removal of DRM just recently in some games is equivalent to the Czar's elimination of serfdom. The new DRM they then introduced is analogous to the Czar's fatal decision to take back those newly granted rights. Ubisoft shall certainly be first against the wall.

Youre talking about a legal business who employs and is responsible for legally supplying peoples homes with food, peoples families with shelter through a paycheck with serfdom?

Seriously, is your mind that detached from reality where you think simply because someone takes on a company its all of a sudden David vs. Goliath? Do you not understand David vs. Goliath is a tale about achieving a noble cause, its not what youre making it out ot be....and the situation sure as fuck isnt anything close to an allegory to the bourgoisie or whatever. Wow, just wow.

 

The story of David and Goliath

Two armies, philistines and Isralites are about to enter combat

In order to save the lives of many of his warriors, Goliath offers to replace the battle with a duel, with the army of the loser of the duel being honourbound to withdraw(in safety). Fairly common practice in those days.

No Israilite is brave enough to face him, save David

David kills him, cuts off his head

The philistine army flees, and the Israilites pursue, very much in breech of contract, with intent to kill the philistines as they flee

 

Nothing noble here, just warfare.

 

Also, learn2russianhistory



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steverhcp02 on 08 April 2010
mirgro said:
steverhcp02 said:
mirgro said:
steverhcp02 said:
mirgro said:
Ok I just have to ask this question. Do the majority of you live under rocks or are you just not too informed about how technology works? Does no one know that the more a company touts its security features, the more it eggs on crackers to crack their software. Do people here also not realize that people will always want to crack into a system? They don't do it for monetary gain, they do it for the status and to jsut say they were the ones to crack a certain system. I mean seriously, these people have been around since the '80s, I can't believe there are people still somehow surprised enough to blame this one guy right now. Where have you all been for the past 30 years?

Right, i mean why blame the person responsible for something now when people have done similar things in different decades. You, my friend, are unparralleled in you logic.

Ya, know i always find it funny. I wonder how people would feel if someone who makes less money than them came to their home and stole their shit and just said "hey, youre better off than me, dont get mad"

People are detached from reality with this company image thing, the bad guys making all the money wont siffer from anything....console sales, software sales, piracy or anything, dont you people realize that after this economic meltdown. The people we love to hate keep getting their paychecks, its our neighbors and peers that suffer.

Yet all of these self righteous kids/adults whatever, come here argueing the legitmacy of defending this stuff.

Do you realize that maybe the problem is not with the people, but something underlying it? Maybe it's those companies view that they somehow own their hardware even after you pay for it and just overall restricting use to it? I mean, just something to think about there, if you are capable of such a thing.

Really, so i own my phone, the hardware, thus i own the phone company? I can tap into neighbors lines for free use since i bought a phone? Just because you own the means you still sign a user agreement to use the service of the PSN and abide by Sony's rules when using their servers.

Seriously.

Theres no problem underlying it. This delusion about trying to rationalize this scenerio is becoming ridiculous. Its not noble. Its not right. Its not warrented, your sense of entitlement for no reason is disturbing.

If you wanted to tap into the lines of others there is absolutely no reason someone should stop your phone from doing so. Maybe stop you, but not the phone. Same with the PS3.

I think you are a very confused individual because you seem to be calling me entitled when it's the companies who have a fucked up sort of mentality thinking that they are entitled to control their hardware and that it is somehow theirs after a sale. I am sorry, but no, it is not. You have some very fucked up sense of morality if you don't think so.

Youre batshit insane. oure seriously argueing my phone is entitled to steal service by itself but i should be stopped. The fucking inanimate phone. Really. Seriously. You. Are. Serious?

Im done responding to you. Sony isnt tacking anything form the hardware, its the PSN and online access which YOU NEVER BOUGHT. You dont even know what youre argueing anymore. The other OS can stay, access to the PSN, not hardware, is being stripped. Educate yourself on matters at hand before you start debating.

 




Get Your Portable ID!

KingFate on 08 April 2010
steverhcp02 said:
KingFate said:
steverhcp02 said:
KingFate said:
Well I gotta say that was fast. My only thing I can't stand about the whole thing is both parties are to blame for the coming piracy. It will be a sad day, when games are going to die out due to mass piracy. It's what's killing the music industry.

How? you do realize that the self righteous mindset has nothing to do with Sony?

So if a child in my neighborhood almost gets hit by a speeding car, and the city lowers the speed limit and puts in speed bumps, if i speed and get pulled over, its teh citys fault for protecting innocent citizens from reckless people?

I fail to see how Sony can be blamed for some kids inferiority complex.

The issue, is if you try to stop hackers they will rally together. This is common knowledge, Sony SHOULD have found a better way of dealing with this. Out of court settlement with Geohot would have been the best course of action imo.

I mean a certain metal band destroyed themselves trying to stop downloading.

Im not reacting to the hacking community or even GeoHotz response. Im reacting to the community here who seems to think that GeoHotz response is OKAY or NOBLE, we all knew it would happen or he would respond this way, no ones denying this isnt surprising or expected, we are responding to people HERE defending the response.

I personally think what did Geohot is wrong. Sony went about the wrong way to stop it, for instance if someone pushes you in the street and talks crap. You could either do your best to stop the situation, or starting swinging then have his friends jump around the corner and knock your lights out. There was a better way to deal with this.



PSN ID: KingFate_

joeorc on 08 April 2010
mirgro said:
joeorc said:
mirgro said:
joeorc said:
mirgro said:
Ok I just have to ask this question. Do the majority of you live under rocks or are you just not too informed about how technology works? Does no one know that the more a company touts its security features, the more it eggs on crackers to crack their software. Do people here also not realize that people will always want to crack into a system? They don't do it for monetary gain, they do it for the status and to jsut say they were the ones to crack a certain system. I mean seriously, these people have been around since the '80s, I can't believe there are people still somehow surprised enough to blame this one guy right now. Where have you all been for the past 30 years?

 

did you ask for this?

The hack could allow gamers to play pirated games
So why did Geohot release it to everyone, if he was just doing it for Fun!
for pete's sake he admitted this in jan
George Hotz said the hack, which could allow people to run pirated games or homemade software

If I asked for a dumb parrot, I'll make sure to come to you next time, thanks for your business card.

and you still think it's ok for Geohot to do what he want's no matter who it harm's?

don't you and other's get it?

this hurt's the bottom line, Geohot think's the rules does not apply to him, and for those following him are going to learn the hardway. alot of bricked or banned system's are going to happen. but o'l yea Sony will be to blame for that.

 

I think that the PS3 hardware should have been open from the beginning, if anything this guy provided a service. Hell, the game hackers are a far darker shade of gray and I support some of the things they do, mainly conveinience and the no-bullshit releases they have. If companies didn't act like they owned the hardware after a sale, then maybe all this shit wouldn't be happenig in the first place.

god. how did sony act like they owned your hardware?

don'rt you even think this is not about your hardware it's about protecting PSN!

WHEN GEOHOT DID HIS HACK he knew that it could be used to bypass PSN PROTECTION AND ENCRYPTION

thus it could also be used as a vector into people's personal information or hack someone's account or worse steal credit card info.

but that's alright because Geohot is just hacking the PS3 HARDWARE right?.

He did know what would have happened if he released his hack to the internet.

so it's alright for anyone to come into PSN and take what they want even your Info, but is somehow Sony's fault for trying to protect consumer's from theft?

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

steverhcp02 on 08 April 2010
scottie said:
steverhcp02 said:
scottie said:
I have to admit, I love watching fights between hackers and companies.

I don't take sides - I admit that some hackers want to bring in cool new features that don't harm Sony, and that some want to pirate games - I'll defend the first whilst simultaneously defending Sony's right to stop the later.

I think I like it cos it's either a david and goliath story, as in this case where the few take on the many (and usually win) or if enough people get behind it, it's an allegory for socialist revolution - power to the people and the means of production being transfered from the bourgeoisie to the proletariat.

Ubisoft's removal of DRM just recently in some games is equivalent to the Czar's elimination of serfdom. The new DRM they then introduced is analogous to the Czar's fatal decision to take back those newly granted rights. Ubisoft shall certainly be first against the wall.

Youre talking about a legal business who employs and is responsible for legally supplying peoples homes with food, peoples families with shelter through a paycheck with serfdom?

Seriously, is your mind that detached from reality where you think simply because someone takes on a company its all of a sudden David vs. Goliath? Do you not understand David vs. Goliath is a tale about achieving a noble cause, its not what youre making it out ot be....and the situation sure as fuck isnt anything close to an allegory to the bourgoisie or whatever. Wow, just wow.

 

The story of David and Goliath

Two armies, philistines and Isralites are about to enter combat

In order to save the lives of many of his warriors, Goliath offers to replace the battle with a duel, with the army of the loser of the duel being honourbound to withdraw(in safety). Fairly common practice in those days.

No Israilite is brave enough to face him, save David

David kills him, cuts off his head

The philistine army flees, and the Israilites pursue, very much in breech of contract, with intent to kill the philistines as they flee

 

Nothing noble here, just warfare.

 

Also, learn2russianhistory

Well i guess i learned different in my bible study 12 years ago.

I dont need ot learn russian history, comparing anything like to any social revolution is stupid.




Get Your Portable ID!

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steverhcp02 on 08 April 2010
KingFate said:
steverhcp02 said:
KingFate said:
steverhcp02 said:
KingFate said:
Well I gotta say that was fast. My only thing I can't stand about the whole thing is both parties are to blame for the coming piracy. It will be a sad day, when games are going to die out due to mass piracy. It's what's killing the music industry.

How? you do realize that the self righteous mindset has nothing to do with Sony?

So if a child in my neighborhood almost gets hit by a speeding car, and the city lowers the speed limit and puts in speed bumps, if i speed and get pulled over, its teh citys fault for protecting innocent citizens from reckless people?

I fail to see how Sony can be blamed for some kids inferiority complex.

The issue, is if you try to stop hackers they will rally together. This is common knowledge, Sony SHOULD have found a better way of dealing with this. Out of court settlement with Geohot would have been the best course of action imo.

I mean a certain metal band destroyed themselves trying to stop downloading.

Im not reacting to the hacking community or even GeoHotz response. Im reacting to the community here who seems to think that GeoHotz response is OKAY or NOBLE, we all knew it would happen or he would respond this way, no ones denying this isnt surprising or expected, we are responding to people HERE defending the response.

I personally think what did Geohot is wrong. Sony went about the wrong way to stop it, for instance if someone pushes you in the street and talks crap. You could either do your best to stop the situation, or starting swinging then have his friends jump around the corner and knock your lights out. There was a better way to deal with this.

The difference is GeoHot pushed first with the info posted, which has been posted in this thread multiple times. People seem to forget that.

I dont know what a better solution would be, to be honest. Id be curious what people feel should have happened since he admitted it was possible to hack and put malicious things through the network, what should have been done? nothing?




Get Your Portable ID!

KingFate on 08 April 2010
steverhcp02 said:
KingFate said:

I personally think what did Geohot is wrong. Sony went about the wrong way to stop it, for instance if someone pushes you in the street and talks crap. You could either do your best to stop the situation, or starting swinging then have his friends jump around the corner and knock your lights out. There was a better way to deal with this.

The difference is GeoHot pushed first with the info posted, which has been posted in this thread multiple times. People seem to forget that.

I dont know what a better solution would be, to be honest. Id be curious what people feel should have happened since he admitted it was possible to hack and put malicious things through the network, what should have been done? nothing?

That I do not know, but that's why companies have teams of people to figure it out. Sony made the wrong choice as it only added fuel to the fire. If they had spoken personally to Geohot perhaps it could have been different. In all honesty Sony could have hired him. The US government does similar things, if someone hacks their files they go to jail for awhile then they get a job.



PSN ID: KingFate_

joeorc on 08 April 2010
KingFate said:
steverhcp02 said:
KingFate said:
steverhcp02 said:
KingFate said:
Well I gotta say that was fast. My only thing I can't stand about the whole thing is both parties are to blame for the coming piracy. It will be a sad day, when games are going to die out due to mass piracy. It's what's killing the music industry.

How? you do realize that the self righteous mindset has nothing to do with Sony?

So if a child in my neighborhood almost gets hit by a speeding car, and the city lowers the speed limit and puts in speed bumps, if i speed and get pulled over, its teh citys fault for protecting innocent citizens from reckless people?

I fail to see how Sony can be blamed for some kids inferiority complex.

The issue, is if you try to stop hackers they will rally together. This is common knowledge, Sony SHOULD have found a better way of dealing with this. Out of court settlement with Geohot would have been the best course of action imo.

I mean a certain metal band destroyed themselves trying to stop downloading.

Im not reacting to the hacking community or even GeoHotz response. Im reacting to the community here who seems to think that GeoHotz response is OKAY or NOBLE, we all knew it would happen or he would respond this way, no ones denying this isnt surprising or expected, we are responding to people HERE defending the response.

I personally think what did Geohot is wrong. Sony went about the wrong way to stop it, for instance if someone pushes you in the street and talks crap. You could either do your best to stop the situation, or starting swinging then have his friends jump around the corner and knock your lights out. There was a better way to deal with this.

the stopping of the use of linux enabled PS3's because of Geohot's Hack was to protect gamer's PSN.

that's why Linux could still be used just not enabled to be used to access PSN. but also had the other effect of stopping certain function's because of the way the hack work's. Sony did not have much of a choice, an Geohot know's this.

but he's will not admit that if geohot did not release the hack and it's direction's onto the internet, nothing would have happened, but since he did, Sony had no other choice but to discourage Linux use on the PS3 if you want to access PSN , now that Geohot is doing what he's doing I think banned PS3's are also going to be more common than they should. due to people wanting to bypass the security of PSN.

Sony told people what the effect's of keeping Linux would be, you have to decide yes or no, now what Geohot is doing is breaking PSN's security which is not something he own's. which is a bannable offense.

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

scottie on 08 April 2010
steverhcp02 said:
scottie said:
steverhcp02 said:
scottie said:

 

 

The story of David and Goliath

Two armies, philistines and Isralites are about to enter combat

In order to save the lives of many of his warriors, Goliath offers to replace the battle with a duel, with the army of the loser of the duel being honourbound to withdraw(in safety). Fairly common practice in those days.

No Israilite is brave enough to face him, save David

David kills him, cuts off his head

The philistine army flees, and the Israilites pursue, very much in breech of contract, with intent to kill the philistines as they flee

 

Nothing noble here, just warfare.

 

Also, learn2russianhistory

Well i guess i learned different in my bible study 12 years ago.

I dont need ot learn russian history, comparing anything like to any social revolution is stupid.

Well yes, I imagine you would have been taught something else in bible study :P You were incorrectly informed.

1 Samuel, chapter 17

Saul and the Israelites are facing the Philistines at the Valley of Elah. Twice a day for forty days, Goliath, the champion of the Philistines, comes out between the lines and challenges the Israelites to send out a champion of their own to decide the outcome in single combat. However, Saul and all the other Israelites are afraid of him. By chance, David is present, having brought food for his elder brothers. Told that Saul has promised to reward any man who defeats Goliath, David accepts the challenge. Saul reluctantly agrees and offers his armor, which David declines, taking only his sling and five stones chosen in a brook.

David and Goliath confront each other, Goliath with his armor and shield, David with his staff and sling, “and the Philistine cursed David by his gods.” David replies: “This day the LORD will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you down, and cut off your head; and I will give the dead bodies of the host of the Philistines this day to the birds of the air and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel, and that all this assembly may know that God saves not with sword and spear; for the battle is God’s, and he will give you into our hand.”

 

Sorry for the blue text, I copy pasted this, check it in your bible if you don't believe me. David and Goliath was a war fought over territory and a desire to convert others to their religion. It was not a noble fight.

 

As for why the Russian history analogy is not stupid, if Ubisoft had paid more attention in Russian history class, they might have learnt something from it. A good summary of what I was saying about this is "If you give someone something, and then take it away, they will be more annoyed than if you had never given it to them" Now you surely must agree that that is not stupid, and it is infact Ubisoft execs who are stupid for not following this?

 

Infact, just to stay a bit on topic, Sony knew that adding OtherOS support would make their console much less secure. If they wanted to avoid the inevitable consumer backlash, they could have not provided otherOS support in the first place. You'll notice that Nintendo and Microsoft are not currently being criticised for not offering otherOS support.



KingFate on 08 April 2010
joeorc said:
KingFate said:
steverhcp02 said:

 

PSN's security which is not something he own's. which is a bannable offense.

 

That boreders on a LEGAL offense. I disagree with what he is doing/has done. Just let all the dice fall before we go for the throat of anyone right now.



PSN ID: KingFate_