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Forums - General - Ban the Burqa

pbroy on 04 April 2010

I couldn't watch the video too long. Her cleavage looks disturbing for some reason.

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Kasz216 on 04 April 2010
Samus Aran said:
Kasz216 said:
Samus Aran said:
Kasz216 said:
Samus Aran said:
Kasz216 said:
Samus Aran said:


Funny how you're so concerned about women rights, yet to fail to see how a burqa IS in fact a symbol that men are superior to women(which isn't true).

Oh well, finally something to be proud of in Belgium that isn't beer/chocolate/waffles/comics/cycling

 

99.999% of the women in Belgium don't even wear a burqa you know, I don't think anyone will care here except a few extremist Muslims and tree huggers.

Symbols are less then attitudes.

By banning the Burqa you are reinforcing attitudes of sexism.

You go to college right?  Track down a sociology professor and ask them... they'll tell you how banning the Burqa will be a negative for womens rights.

One of my professors is Etienne Vermeersch. Google him, he's pretty famous

He's also not a sociologist.  Banning the Burqa would be analgous to thinking there is a problem with Neo-nazism, so you ban the swastika.  Good job, all you've accomplished is banned a symbol and ALSO made it harder to distinguish those with a problem from those without one.  This is why france is one of the most racist and sexist countries in the developed world.  Rather then acknowledge and try and change problems they try and hide them.  No, what you do is you put social pressure on people who mistreat their spouses.  That is how you get socioogical change.

He has more knowledge about this particular subject then any other professor at my university. You speak about tolerance, but we can't even voice our opinions without being threatened to death by some extremist Muslims(that ruin it for 99.9% of the normal Muslims here). It wouldn't be the first time he was under police security for his opinions.

Tolerance is a two way street. You can't complain about someone being intolerant against you while you're intolerant against gay people for example.

Swastika is banned here. As is the Roman salute. We're already plagued enough with Neo nazi's as it is. If you want to draw swastika's I suggest you go to Japan or China.

Look at your own country first before you talk about France by the way.

I have... our country is actually a lot less racist then France.  When it comes to racism and sexism... our country actually does well for itself statistically.  It "seems" more racist soley because we have stronger freedom of speech and allow people to say the stupid things the are thinking so we can ostrisize and exclude them.

There is a reason why new Sexism laws are being based on American sexism laws... in general sexism is looked at in a very backwords way in most parts of europe.  Indeed they are greatly trying to change the way people thing about sexism over there... heck even europeon sociologists tend to hold a "wrong" view of sexism.  Interestingly there is a news article about europeon sexism on the BBC today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2053238.stm

Also no.  Sociologists have more knowledge then he does.  Sociologists know how laws like that effect society... negativly.

Laws can be blamed on the government and rich minorities.  Instead by forcing the issue as a society like the US does... people are forced to face it head on and face the pressure of the majority of their peers.

This law doesn't affect society negativly. Only for the fact that the total amount of women wearing burqa's in belgium is less then a 100 and most people are against burqa's here.  

The least racist countries in the Western world are Scandinavian countries for sure. You know, Europeans.

Greece and Italy are a lot more racist then France, so why do you keep on hammering on the French?

Christianity, Islam and Judism are sexist religions no matter how you spin it(please note that I didn't call Christians, Muslims or Jews sexists). 

People who wear burqa's are die hard Muslims and there for they will not tolerate gay people(just an example) 

Like I said, tolerance is a two way street. Don't complain that someone is intolerant against you while you're being intolerant as well. That would make you a hypocrite

 

Why france?  Because France tries policies like this.  Which FAIL and are negatives to society.  These laws DO affect society negativly, additionally if less then 100 women where burqas... why is their a law needed to ban them?  Most people being against the burqa is COMPLETLY irrelvent.  Most people are against burqas anywhere.  It's laws like this that let racists and sexists maintain their beliefs under the claims of persecution by the government.



Kasz216 on 05 April 2010

Also, this doesn't even adress the problem that your hurting the women who are forced to wear Buqkas.

Ok, so you ban the Burqa... what then? The women who chose to wear Burqas don't anymore. The women who are forced to wear them... are still forced to wear them. What happens the laws punish them, the victims. Not those who force them to wear Burqas. Or even worse... the men simply forbid the women from ever leaving their homes. Yeah, those women are really helped by this.



FaRmLaNd on 05 April 2010

I wish the burqa didn't exist. But it does.

I don't care if a woman wears it unless they need to show their identity to the authorities. At which point securalism prevails.

I do think the burqa represents religious opression of women but as much as it distrubs me that a women would need to wear such a concealing outfit I think it puts us in muddy water if theirs an outright ban.

Thankfully most muslim women don't wear them.



Lostplanet22 on 05 April 2010
Kasz216 said:
Lostplanet22 said:
Kasz216 said:
Lostplanet22 said:
Kasz216 said:
Lostplanet22 said:

Well the problem occured that a women had to shown her ID and herself to show it was really her. She answered what is the point of wearing a Burqa when I have to show myself? 

And all those small accidents like someone in burqa was seen on a camera stealing a product in store. The guard wanted to see if the she had more products under her and he may not because of her religion....What will be the endresult?  Next day the storeowner will not accept people in burqa in his store..

After airports, banks...and schools, it will be schools, libraries, hospitals etc...

Those women in Burqa can not function in this society anymore....and sadly some don't want to wear one but they have to...

Then I can see this law passed....it is maybe sad for the freedom of religion but I think women rights are way more important than this.

Except you know... banning the Burqa is an assault on womans rights.  It's patriachial protection bullshit.

It's the government telling women they can't wear something.

The law is not only for women man may not wear an burqa aswell.

That's like saying banning the wearing of dresses wouldn't be sexist.

 

Well forget my last comment wanted to add more later but I got some folks over.

Anyway if your opinion is that the women may wear a Burqa everywere they want it is fine with me but then it must be everywhere like airports
and banks shouldn't it?  Otherwise you already hurt their rights to have the chance to function in society for 100%. If they can do that in the USA I can only compliment USA for it.

For me it is more important that those women have the chance to function in society for 100% even if it is only possible with the banning of the burqa.

All this comments about tolerance...how far does it go? Is it strange that in Western European countries the people are developping a fear of the growing islam community in their countries? It is common to read stories of a women who got killed by her husband because she did not want to marry him and said she don't love him....Great that the Belgian government says it is wrong...But why does the islam community says nothing about it? If an cartoon of mohammed is on tv they come on the street almost would declare a war but if an islam women got killed because she did not want to marry him...They say nothing about it?   What is the message the islam community then gives to their children? It is okay to kill your wife but if someone makes a cartoon about Mohammed then you should start a rampage?

Relgion>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rights of the women...............Isn't this sad???

Ten years ago the socialists said the problems are small and we should not make them bigger than they are.....This day the problems are way bigger and they still say the same..........

The tolerance of Countries like Belgium created Sharia4Belgium...An organisation who wants to have the sharia in Belgium, who wants that Homosexuals should be exectued (that already happens in the islam community in Belgium) and that Democracy should end...

The leader of this organasitation was born in Belgium, went to an Catholic school, went to College or University.....he was the perfect example that no matter your origin of religion you have the chance to become something......and how does he ends up? Being someone who thinks Homosexuals should be killed and democracy should end for an Islam civilisation who will serve under the laws of Sharia and his site is full with articles as 'If Sharia is finally implented 9/11 will be an holiday' etc..

Should we tolerate it? They are even getting power in some Islam communites in USA who share the same goals. And all agree in one thing....Belgium will be the first to be changed in an Islam state and the endresults will be the White house...

Also nice illustrated in this vid:


 

If someone wants to come into a bank or airport with a buqa or mask or whatever, they should be searched, and forced to show their face and ID to one of the security guards on duty and matched with an ID in a seperate room.

Banning the Burqa is a strike against ALL woman's rights to try and save a very small minority... even of those who wear burqas.

Here's an idea... target abusive husbands instead.  Do something that will actually improve peoples lives.

 

Also yes.  If someone says "Homosexuals should die!"  You tolerate it.  By calling him a moron, an asshole and suggesting the boycott of any buisness that hires or supports him.  You use society to condemn people and force them to either change or be ostricized, rather then hide and pretend it doesn't exist.

But that is the point where this ban came from...the women did not allow a search even in an seperate room. If those women allowed it their probably would not have been a ban in the first place.

Well how would you target abusive husbands? Put a camera in the house? Yeah sorry just don't know how you are going to do that. Their enough centre's where women can go when they want to flee from their husband. For an Belgian women it is okay to do...but for a muslim women it is difficult especially when their is a chance that the islam community would not tolerate it and that she would put their god to shame... What they need is someone from the Islam community who stands up for the women but in the end they need bodyguards to secure their safety so far goes freedom of speech.

Yeah they were even politician(s) who called them idiots he is been shot to dead....And with an interview of what the Islam youth thinks about it you get only answers as 'It is good he is been shot to dead because no one should say something like that about an moslim'..... Stop supporting the leader of Sharia4Belgium will only end up with someone else standing up even if they have make a new organization.



 



 

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Samus Aran on 05 April 2010
Kasz216 said:
Also, this doesn't even adress the problem that your hurting the women who are forced to wear Buqkas.

Ok, so you ban the Burqa... what then? The women who chose to wear Burqas don't anymore. The women who are forced to wear them... are still forced to wear them. What happens the laws punish them, the victims. Not those who force them to wear Burqas. Or even worse... the men simply forbid the women from ever leaving their homes. Yeah, those women are really helped by this.

Do you know why they wear burqa's? If they were forced inside their house they wouldn't need burqa's unless someone pays them a visit. I don't see the problem if they're forced to stay inside. They're out of society then, so it doesn't affect it. People who wear burqa's are out of society anyway as they're not allowed to do a thing.

 

And don't the anti gay laws in the USA affect society negatively? They do, on a bigger scale then this thing. In what Western country can you sue someone for $16000 because his dead son was gay and in the army? Only in the USA

Don't the crazy gun laws affect society in a bad way in the USA? THEY DO, I'd rather not eat in a restaurant filled with people wearing a loaded gun.

I'd rather go to France then USA. I can tell you that.

Do you honestly think Belgium cares for extremist Muslims? Not when they're trying to turn our law into the sharia lol. The site is probably of the air already, but if it isn't: www.Belgium4sharia.com



Lostplanet22 on 05 April 2010

Samus...It is not because Kasz216 is from the USA he agrees with the gay laws or the right to have a gun laws. Anyway a reaction like that will not lead to an civil discussion.

I personally would be very dissapointed in you Samus if you go on like that.



 

Samus Aran on 05 April 2010
Lostplanet22 said:
Samus...It is not because Kasz216 is from the USA he agrees with the gay laws or the right to have a gun laws. Anyway a reaction like that will not lead to an civil discussion.

I personally would be very dissapointed in you Samus if you go on like that.

No, but he did drag his country in to one of his posts. As if the USA is a place that we should all look up to. I don't like that. And I've also noticed that a lot of people seem to hate France on this site. If you want to talk about racism&sexism in Europe then Greece and Italy are a WAY BETTER example then France.



Scoobes on 05 April 2010

As far as I'm aware the Quran says nothing on the Burqa. The most women should cover up is their hair. The Burqa itself is cultural, not religious.

I'm divided on the topic. Not sure banning it is the way to go but I don't like the idea of the Burqa in general.




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Scoobes on 05 April 2010
deathgod33 said:
Samus Aran said:


Funny how you're so concerned about women rights, yet to fail to see how a burqa IS in fact a symbol that men are superior to women(which isn't true).

Oh well, finally something to be proud of in Belgium that isn't beer/chocolate/waffles/comics/cycling

 

99.999% of the women in Belgium don't even wear a burqa you know, I don't think anyone will care here except a few extremist Muslims and tree huggers.


the reason for the burqa, according to the quran, is basically to protect women.

now which woman is more likely to get raped? a women wearing a mini-skirt, or one wearing a burqa?

and im not sure if men are superior to women, but i do believe that men and women aren't equal.

As far as I'm aware from my muslim friends, women only need to cover their hair and not their face completely. The Burqa is more a cultural symobol than a religious one. And protection is a poor excuse based off of fear and oppression. Every man is a potential rapist then? And just showing a face is enough for them to wildly get the horn and go rape women? Give me a break.




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